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John from Altruist

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knuk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote knuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/10/2019 at 12:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moraen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/10/2019 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by knuk knuk wrote:

Article on Altruist....the next Schwab.



Some dumbass named Donald in that article pays $46,000 for technology right now. WTF?  Is Tamarac even that much?

He must be a small time producer. You can get pretty good discounts on technology just have decent assets.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/10/2019 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by Moraen Moraen wrote:

Originally posted by knuk knuk wrote:

Article on Altruist....the next Schwab.



Some dumbass named Donald in that article pays $46,000 for technology right now. WTF?  Is Tamarac even that much?

He must be a small time producer. You can get pretty good discounts on technology just have decent assets.

That's almost $4K a month!!! Holy fuck! His profit margin is probably fucking horrible, with no added value. 

He should talk to Helado about running a lean business.
"If Bellicheat pulls that rabbit out of his a$$ with this kid at quarterback, I'll personally kiss his ring." - Sporsfreak, 09/20/16

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moraen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/10/2019 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by B24 B24 wrote:

Originally posted by Moraen Moraen wrote:

Originally posted by knuk knuk wrote:

Article on Altruist....the next Schwab.



Some dumbass named Donald in that article pays $46,000 for technology right now. WTF?  Is Tamarac even that much?

He must be a small time producer. You can get pretty good discounts on technology just have decent assets.

That's almost $4K a month!!! Holy fuck! His profit margin is probably fucking horrible, with no added value. 

He should talk to Helado about running a lean business.

I bet he and helado would get along great tbh. It's ok, he probably leverages technology, so he doesn't have to have any headcount. He's probably replacing two staff people with just the tech.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chief Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/10/2019 at 3:54pm
I heard Orion can range from $50-$100 per account, so if you had say 400 accounts maybe you get to $40,000, though at that price point Advyzon is only $5,000/ year last I heard.
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Good point Chief. Iceco1d 10/30/12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chief Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/10/2019 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by knuk knuk wrote:

Article on Altruist....the next Schwab.


I hope not because I hate Schwab....

When have the big 3 custodians (fidelity, schwab and TDA) ever benefited the advisor? 

1.Cost to trade(even though they make there money on order sales, cash balances, and securities lending)
2.the additional software you need to that has to work with the custodian to manage all your households(advyzon, orion, etc) 
3. they market to my clients through mail, branch locations and 401k custodian
4. they refer the HNW clients to large billion dollar firms

Which is why I use IB, because they don't do any of that plus the reporting software is included, and their internal trading software is so much better
"You like winning don't you?" "Saves you from having to say the word please."

Good point Chief. Iceco1d 10/30/12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/10/2019 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by Chief Chief wrote:

I heard Orion can range from $50-$100 per account, so if you had say 400 accounts maybe you get to $40,000, though at that price point Advyzon is only $5,000/ year last I heard.

I figured he had all HNW and UHNW clients, so low client count, but high average balance.

Doesn't make sense. I think the guy in the article is lying. Probably a typical exaggeration from an advisor. 

But if he DOES have a lot of clients, he should definitely run his business like Helado. I know he has a ton of clients, but runs a pretty efficient business. Profitable. Scalable. This guy in the article is probably running 40-50% margins at best.
"If Bellicheat pulls that rabbit out of his a$$ with this kid at quarterback, I'll personally kiss his ring." - Sporsfreak, 09/20/16

"Jags/Vikes Super Bowl. Write it down" - Sportsfreak 01/19/18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moraen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/11/2019 at 8:32am
Originally posted by B24 B24 wrote:

Originally posted by Chief Chief wrote:

I heard Orion can range from $50-$100 per account, so if you had say 400 accounts maybe you get to $40,000, though at that price point Advyzon is only $5,000/ year last I heard.

I figured he had all HNW and UHNW clients, so low client count, but high average balance.

Doesn't make sense. I think the guy in the article is lying. Probably a typical exaggeration from an advisor. 

But if he DOES have a lot of clients, he should definitely run his business like Helado. I know he has a ton of clients, but runs a pretty efficient business. Profitable. Scalable. This guy in the article is probably running 40-50% margins at best.

I'd say 15%.
I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all. - General James Mattis

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hacksaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/11/2019 at 9:26am
Originally posted by B24 B24 wrote:

Originally posted by Chief Chief wrote:

I heard Orion can range from $50-$100 per account, so if you had say 400 accounts maybe you get to $40,000, though at that price point Advyzon is only $5,000/ year last I heard.

I figured he had all HNW and UHNW clients, so low client count, but high average balance.

Doesn't make sense. I think the guy in the article is lying. Probably a typical exaggeration from an advisor. 

But if he DOES have a lot of clients, he should definitely run his business like Helado. I know he has a ton of clients, but runs a pretty efficient business. Profitable. Scalable. This guy in the article is probably running 40-50% margins at best.

Except for having a high number a clients, this sounds like CLAB - exaggerates, spends a lot and has low profit margins, an idiot
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moraen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/11/2019 at 4:45pm
Originally posted by Hacksaw Hacksaw wrote:

Originally posted by B24 B24 wrote:

Originally posted by Chief Chief wrote:

I heard Orion can range from $50-$100 per account, so if you had say 400 accounts maybe you get to $40,000, though at that price point Advyzon is only $5,000/ year last I heard.

I figured he had all HNW and UHNW clients, so low client count, but high average balance.

Doesn't make sense. I think the guy in the article is lying. Probably a typical exaggeration from an advisor. 

But if he DOES have a lot of clients, he should definitely run his business like Helado. I know he has a ton of clients, but runs a pretty efficient business. Profitable. Scalable. This guy in the article is probably running 40-50% margins at best.

Except for having a high number a clients, this sounds like CLAB - exaggerates, spends a lot and has low profit margins, an idiot


It could have been CLAB, except if you look that guy up on the internet, he clearly has never run a 4.5 40, nor does it appear as if he could deadlift any more than say... 200lbs. So that definitely is not him. And I doubt he's packing lunches for trips to Disney. If anything, he's stopping at McDonalds every three hours.
I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all. - General James Mattis

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moraen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/16/2019 at 2:28pm
Looks like the White Coat Investor is calling into question the "altruistic" intentions of the founder.

Interestingly enough that guy Donald makes an appearance on this twitter thread.

https://twitter.com/djwindle/status/1173457759678812160
I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all. - General James Mattis

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/16/2019 at 2:44pm
LOL He got owned!
"If Bellicheat pulls that rabbit out of his a$$ with this kid at quarterback, I'll personally kiss his ring." - Sporsfreak, 09/20/16

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Wank-fest👋🏿👋🏿👋🏿👋🏿👋🏿
Good luck and good selling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PEACH_cm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/16/2019 at 7:35pm
Ahhh a Napoleon. It all makes sense now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chico Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/16/2019 at 8:36pm
That was a great read.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/17/2019 at 4:11am
Really? I  thought it was a shitty read.  And I think the White Coat Investor is a self promoting douche.  I'm the first one to claim we are overpaid as an industry and many of us charge to much.  But his simplistic ridicule of our industry, fee structures, and oversimplification of what we do is disgusting self promotion.

And honestly, he can kiss my ass.  

People that don't do this for a living don't realize what their "audience" takes from there writing.  There are people on Bogleheads routinely firing their advisor and putting all of their money in Vanguard 500.  Plenty of people firing their advisors after reading drivel like his, and then asking stupid questions like, "should I buy Vanguard index funds, or a Roth IRA?"

People are dumb enough with money.  

And, our industry is unique in that people don't have glaring signs they need some help until it's way too fucking late.  Like after they are already 60 and have only saved $25K.  That guy would've been better to have paid A-share loads for 30 years and saved some money.

Or the breadwinner that dies at 40 with 2 kids and 1x his salary in group life insurance.  

Or the droves of people that end up selling at the bottom, buying bitcoin, buying gold at $1,800, whatever.  

They don't get a nasty letter from the IRS if they don't keep up on their retirement savings.  They don't get a subpoena that alerts them they need a lawyer.  They don't have a bank telling them they have to get home/auto insurance because they have a loan.

And by the time there is a red flag...they are generally screwed.

Are there people that can do it all by themselves?  Sure.  Are there people that can handle most of it, but would benefit from spending $250-$500 a year for a checkup with an hourly advisor?  Absolutely.  

But will most people pay $500 out of pocket every year or two, charged to their debit card, to make sure they didn't fuck anything up and update their financial plan?  Probably not.

Would they get a helluva a lot of value from a lot of the good advisors on this board?  Yep.

And so what if you charge an AUM fee?  Is 1.50% too high?  Usually.  But what if they only have $25K and they really do want help.  

Are A-share loads a stupid way to pay?  Probably.  But what if you are starting with $0 and you're looking to build up a Roth IRA?  

The real pricing problem in our industry is modifying the A-share and AUM fee structure into something that "evens out" for people with money.  Because 1.25% for someone with $500K or $2mm is probably too high.  

I would be MORE than happy, to not have any trading responsibility.  No compliance bullshit.  And no fucking hand holding.  Just come in once a year for an update and review, maybe twice.  My lawyer charges $500 an hour.  I'll do it for $300.  I have the same amount of relevant industry experience, do the same redundant 5 things he does, can be pretty creative when needed, and have the same amount of college.  2,000 hours a year, $300 an hour.  $600K revenue.  Fuck it, 1,500 hours with clients, 500 for admin shit.  Split an assistant (which I'd only need one because of no fucking bullshit to deal with) and some office space with another FA.  

Take home $400K before taxes.  It would be a pay cut compared to what I make now.  But no more for whining and stupid questions about the market, or trump, or China, or gold, or bitcoin.  

Here's your fucking diagnoses.  You can pay at the window.  Get the fuck out of my office.  

Oh, and don't text me.  Not at 7 PM on a Friday.  Not at 8 AM on a Sunday.  Don't fucking text me.  Period.

Exactly.  But our world doesn't work like that.  So people like The White Coat, can suck it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/17/2019 at 4:13am
And Rick Ferri is a scam artist anyway.  37 bps my ass.  Subject to a $925 minimum quarterly fee.  So if ya got less than a million, you're charging the same as everyone else, or more.  

And just leaving a shit load of people out in the cold that might actually want some help.

But slander away at the guy willing to take the $25K account and price it at 1.25% so he can actually make more than a barista.

Another fucking clown.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/17/2019 at 4:23am
Speaking of scam artist...just $450 an hour?  Wow, how benevolent.  I bet the people that really need financial help are willing and able to shell out $450 an hour.  Just $900K a year in revenue, is that all ya need these days buddy?  Man, what selfless guy he is.  

Must be able to run a really lean lifestyle, after selling a $1.5 billion AUM RIA, that poses as a 37 bps investment advisor.  Really took care of all those trusted clients, by selling them out to some other RIA that proceeds to immediately jack prices up and offer more "comprehensive" services at something like 1-1.25% (on all those 7 figure accounts).

What ethical behavior.  I really feel like a shit bag now, for screwing over all the sub $50K households I work with, and charge them a dastardly 1.25% a year.  Hell a bunch of them are sub $10K households.

Highway robbery I tell you!

If only I charged them a flat $450 an hour.  I bet they'd save a lot of money.

And I bet they'd seek out financial advice, at all.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/17/2019 at 4:32am
And the next time I go see a doctor and all he does is have his nurse take my pulse and blood pressure, and the prescribe me some steroid cream for poison ivy, and then have the audacity to bill my insurance THOUSANDS of dollars, to sell me a product I already knew was coming, and having his nurse do all the actual work...

...I'm gonna start a blog.  Out of sour grapes.  Ripping on the whole medical profession for being price gougers.  And then I'm going to recommend everyone on Earth go to WebMD if at all humanly possible.

...after all.  MOST shit you go to the doctor for, isn't all that complicated.  Their recommendations aren't all that surprising.  And most of it can be learned online pretty easily. 

And for fucks sake, a big percentage of these docs are just prescribing drugs based on which drug rep takes them to the nicest dinner, or which hot one flirts with them the most.  

The damn opioid epidemic in this country is all their fault anyway!  They should reform, or quit, I say!

Oh right, and 90% of these people I sent to Web MD from my blog...they will probably be ok.  And I'll have saved them a few hundred bucks a year in unnecessary doctor fees.  That they can use to upgrade their next iPhone early.  Whoo hoo!

Except the 10% that misdiagnose themselves on WebMD, and end up having cancer and die...well, whatever.

I helped a whole bunch of people save a whole bunch of fees that they can put towards something much less important than I don't know...their health.  Or their financial future.

This is literally how absurd this horseshit is.  I think I'm going to start a blog about it. 

The messages that I agree with are that 1.50% on $500K, and 1.0% on $1mm is probably pretty absurd.  The rest, I don't know.  But we should be paid pretty well.  This job isn't easy, and neither is the discipline it takes to keep people from losing their shit.  

And secondly...the idiots that really don't know anything about finance should be ousted from this business.  So the rest of us that do know what the hell we're doing, can focus on doing that.  Rather than explaining to clients for the 8th time why the IUL policy they've just been pitched, or the FIA with a 10% bonus is smoke and mirrors and they should just relax and follow the plan we've developed for them.  Allocate.  Keep costs in check.  Manage for taxes.  Save more.  Spend less.  Rebalance.  Don't buy bitcoin.  The government isn't coming for your guns.  Chillax.  

Ok, I'm going to bed.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moraen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/17/2019 at 5:31am
Agree with everything helado said. However, those guys didn't make a good showing.


I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all. - General James Mattis

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