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Aolmos View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aolmos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by Jack50 Jack50 wrote:

Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. 

APAC?
California 
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Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

0.75% and most assets are in the all equity portfolio so 0.00% ER
A high ER along with a high AUM fee is an instant turnoff to me and younger generations I have found.

This is not a knock because I have gotten accounts by competing on fees, but once you start making that a core differentiator it's a slippery slope. Someone can always do it cheaper. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aolmos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by memphis memphis wrote:

Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

0.75% and most assets are in the all equity portfolio so 0.00% ER
A high ER along with a high AUM fee is an instant turnoff to me and younger generations I have found.

This is not a knock because I have gotten accounts by competing on fees, but once you start making that a core differentiator it's a slippery slope. Someone can always do it cheaper. 
I have been warned appreciate it being echoed in time with a better practice new clients will pay a high fee once I deem it fit. The RenTech 5% and 44% is appealing .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bc2051 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by Jack50 Jack50 wrote:

Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. 


APAC?




New guy - Lesson 1: young people are broke
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23 and feel like you’re smarter than everyone else. I remember those days.

Curious on the math side of this since you are obviously knowledgeable enough if you have already done CFAI. Client had $50k. You charge .75% = $375. Raymond James is probably taking somewhere around 15-20% when you include all fees/costs = $300 left. Your office has overhead, so maybe another 15% = $244. But they probably want to make something, so another 10% of your production = $207. So you make $207 on each household a year. Because of your high cost of time in what you plan to do from an analysis side, you can service 150 clients effectively. 150 x $207 = $31k/year. Even if you were really efficient and could double the households, that’s $62k.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hacksaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 9:04am
Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. 


Any client that comes to you because you ripped apart a portfolio will leave when someone shows them a backtested morningstar showing how they would have outperformed even with the fees.

Learn to sell the pen. At $1mm AUM, you’re not making any money.

The AMP program is the Raymond James training program. Ask the lady you’re under if she can look to put you in it. It would cost her money, but might also show you how she views you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote missionshooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Hacksaw Hacksaw wrote:

Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. 


Any client that comes to you because you ripped apart a portfolio will leave when someone shows them a backtested morningstar showing how they would have outperformed even with the fees.

Learn to sell the pen. At $1mm AUM, you’re not making any money.

The AMP program is the Raymond James training program. Ask the lady you’re under if she can look to put you in it. It would cost her money, but might also show you how she views you.


Duggan,

Any idea how much would it cost her?



Edited by missionshooter - Aug/05/2020 at 9:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moraen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 9:31am
Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

Originally posted by bc2051 bc2051 wrote:

Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

Originally posted by bc2051 bc2051 wrote:

Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

Originally posted by bc2051 bc2051 wrote:

What you are missing “with all of your smarts” is that even the best portfolio managers got their ass handed to them in March. Your clients won’t care if you beat a benchmark, other advisors, or buffett himself. You still lost them money and that’s all the really know


Yea the FAs here have warned me about this that down is down and the concept of sharpe is too much. Regardless, I still track this to ensure I am in line. Under-performing is inevitable but not paying 1.25% AUM fee and .89% ER is easily avoidable.


I get the high expense ratio, but what is your plan to make money?

There is nothing wrong with pointing out all-in fees of 2% to a prospect, but chill on the sharpe BS when talking to them. In the real world, you’re 23 and their advisor has been doing it 20 yrs, has experienced actual market cycles, paid for their kids college with American funds, and goes to their church


The million dollar question right there. Take to as many people as possible, help them to my best abilities and hope for referrals. It's a relationship business and need to meet people so I have joined multiple groups for walks, runs, data science, chess and rugby. Going to be volunteering my time with a homeless shelter, animal shelter and Ronald McDonald House. All just to gain business which I feel like a scum for but fuck it.

We have 401(k) clients that produce a healthy stream of rollovers that ill tap into. Participants become eligible they will get a call. Participant was terminated they will get a call. Participant is retiring they will get a call.  

Or I can just cold call and pitch NKLA who knows. Give me some advice please.


My point was you’re beating up the 1.25 mgmt fee and the high expense ratio. Is one okay, but both? What is your mgmt fee?

0.75% and most assets are in the all equity portfolio so 0.00% ER
A high ER along with a high AUM fee is an instant turnoff to me and younger generations I have found.


It's definitely a good way to hook the younger generation. They certainly don't like paying for good service.

The portfolio is not what is going to kill them. It's going to be tax mistakes, purchasing mistakes, not saving enough, making poor decisions around inheritances.

Portfolios are the easy part. Client behavior is the problem. I'd say a good advisor who is experienced does more for clients by simply preventing them from doing stupid shit. Spiff is a good example of this. I don't know Spiff IRL, but I suspect he just uses some good common sense statements to keep most of his clients from doing something really dumb.

I have a client who has probably paid me over $500k the last ten years, but I've saved her well over $3MM in stupid mistakes. Her portfolio rarely changes and performs very well. She was able to "retire" at 46, pulls $180k+ per year off of it, and it still continues to grow. 
I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all. - General James Mattis

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moraen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 9:36am
Originally posted by Hacksaw Hacksaw wrote:

23 and feel like you’re smarter than everyone else. I remember those days.

Curious on the math side of this since you are obviously knowledgeable enough if you have already done CFAI. Client had $50k. You charge .75% = $375. Raymond James is probably taking somewhere around 15-20% when you include all fees/costs = $300 left. Your office has overhead, so maybe another 15% = $244. But they probably want to make something, so another 10% of your production = $207. So you make $207 on each household a year. Because of your high cost of time in what you plan to do from an analysis side, you can service 150 clients effectively. 150 x $207 = $31k/year. Even if you were really efficient and could double the households, that’s $62k.


I'd say that's high. As he gets more clients, he will have less time. So he will have to sacrifice something.

- Updating models (if he is going the full quant route, you can't just update a few things, you have to test and re-test constantly)
- Client acquisition
- Servicing existing clients

As one increases, time to the others have to be cut.

The curve on how much time you spend prospecting is parabolic, so you will end up getting fewer client. The curve gets flattened the more time you spend on other items.

IF he could serve 150 clients, he won't get there until he's had 20 years in the business if he is doing all of this.


I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all. - General James Mattis

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 9:59am
Originally posted by Moraen Moraen wrote:


The portfolio is not what is going to kill them. It's going to be tax mistakes, purchasing mistakes, not saving enough, making poor decisions around inheritances.

Portfolios are the easy part. Client behavior is the problem. I'd say a good advisor who is experienced does more for clients by simply preventing them from doing stupid shit. Spiff is a good example of this. I don't know Spiff IRL, but I suspect he just uses some good common sense statements to keep most of his clients from doing something really dumb.


This is it in a nutshell.

That's one of the reasons I focus so much on planning. I save clients so much by helping them avoid doing dumb things. Most of the BIG money revolves around taxes. Avoiding taking big distributions for big expenditures, avoiding IRMA bumps, avoiding deduction phase-outs, timing retirement, pension, and SS correctly to capitalize on low-income and making Roth conversions, timing stock option exercises correctly to avoid huge income bumps, using account withdrawal strategy early in retirement to get ACA medical subsidies by keeping income low prior to Medicare, etc. Even really obvious shit like clients not realizing how IRA withdrawals affect more than just taxes.

There's lots of shit that you can do to save clients money. Everyone talks smack about charging for "planning", but for a lot of clients, I save them way more than their planning fees AND their advisory fees combined.
"If Bellicheat pulls that rabbit out of his a$$ with this kid at quarterback, I'll personally kiss his ring." - Sporsfreak, 09/20/16

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the future..

asset allocation and fund management has been commoditized 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hacksaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by Moraen Moraen wrote:

Originally posted by Hacksaw Hacksaw wrote:

23 and feel like you’re smarter than everyone else. I remember those days.

Curious on the math side of this since you are obviously knowledgeable enough if you have already done CFAI. Client had $50k. You charge .75% = $375. Raymond James is probably taking somewhere around 15-20% when you include all fees/costs = $300 left. Your office has overhead, so maybe another 15% = $244. But they probably want to make something, so another 10% of your production = $207. So you make $207 on each household a year. Because of your high cost of time in what you plan to do from an analysis side, you can service 150 clients effectively. 150 x $207 = $31k/year. Even if you were really efficient and could double the households, that’s $62k.


I'd say that's high. As he gets more clients, he will have less time. So he will have to sacrifice something.

- Updating models (if he is going the full quant route, you can't just update a few things, you have to test and re-test constantly)
- Client acquisition
- Servicing existing clients

As one increases, time to the others have to be cut.

The curve on how much time you spend prospecting is parabolic, so you will end up getting fewer client. The curve gets flattened the more time you spend on other items.

IF he could serve 150 clients, he won't get there until he's had 20 years in the business if he is doing all of this.



I was assuming he was running a single model, and it would take years to get to 150 clients.

Basically, the finances don't work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hacksaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by missionshooter missionshooter wrote:

Originally posted by Hacksaw Hacksaw wrote:

Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. 


Any client that comes to you because you ripped apart a portfolio will leave when someone shows them a backtested morningstar showing how they would have outperformed even with the fees.

Learn to sell the pen. At $1mm AUM, you’re not making any money.

The AMP program is the Raymond James training program. Ask the lady you’re under if she can look to put you in it. It would cost her money, but might also show you how she views you.


Duggan,

Any idea how much would it cost her?


$10k plus getting them back and forth to Tampa a few times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote apac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/06/2020 at 10:08pm
Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

Originally posted by Jack50 Jack50 wrote:

Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. 

APAC?
California 
?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aolmos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/07/2020 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by apac apac wrote:

Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

Originally posted by Jack50 Jack50 wrote:

Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. 

APAC?
California 
?
Asian Pacific? 
Wtf is APAC im new here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote missionshooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/07/2020 at 6:50pm
Aol, will your chick spend 10k to get you trained in the program??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aolmos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/07/2020 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by missionshooter missionshooter wrote:

Aol, will your chick spend 10k to get you trained in the program??

Mm probably not she bitched about me asking for a good chair. 
Applied for various FADPs thou 
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Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

Originally posted by missionshooter missionshooter wrote:

Aol, will your chick spend 10k to get you trained in the program??


Mm probably not she bitched about me asking for a good chair. 
Applied for various FADPs thou 


A good chair won’t help you bring in business. Good training will.

If you asked for a chair, she might have given up on you already - worried about your priorities. And why leave? You should want to be successful where you are. Going from RJFS to an employee channel will have you out of the business in about a year. And then you will have had your clients with two companies within two years and they will doubt you. Make it work where you are.

Talk to her about the AMP program. If she balks, make a deal - you bring in another $X million and she enrolls you in the program.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aolmos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/10/2020 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by Hacksaw Hacksaw wrote:

Originally posted by Aolmos Aolmos wrote:

Originally posted by missionshooter missionshooter wrote:

Aol, will your chick spend 10k to get you trained in the program??


Mm probably not she bitched about me asking for a good chair. 
Applied for various FADPs thou 


A good chair won’t help you bring in business. Good training will.

If you asked for a chair, she might have given up on you already - worried about your priorities. And why leave? You should want to be successful where you are. Going from RJFS to an employee channel will have you out of the business in about a year. And then you will have had your clients with two companies within two years and they will doubt you. Make it work where you are.

Talk to her about the AMP program. If she balks, make a deal - you bring in another $X million and she enrolls you in the program.

You should've seen the shit I was sitting on. I am a skinny dude so my butt bones were on the steel plate. Alright good to know not to do that. I have resigned my apartment lease for another year so I am locked here until then. I will ask about the training as it has come up before. 
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If this chick is a cougar, please introduce me to her at the next national conference.

TIA
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