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financiallyfitNES View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote financiallyfitNES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 10:16am
whys that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 10:26am
Actually, I re-read your posts. Didn't realize you just sell insurance. This is more of an investment/financial planning-focused forum. 

If you are a good salesman, you can sell insurance to anyone. Not that they most people need permanent insurance, but if you can sell it you can make a good living.
"If Bellicheat pulls that rabbit out of his a$$ with this kid at quarterback, I'll personally kiss his ring." - Sporsfreak, 09/20/16

"Jags/Vikes Super Bowl. Write it down" - Sportsfreak 01/19/18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote financiallyfitNES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 10:28am
Ok here is a more serious question I am legitimately curious of outside opinion. What are your thoughts of whole life insurance as an investment vehicle. To offer a market volatility buffer, tax free bucket of money, good dividend and interest earnings (growth) etc.. the firm I am at right now uses it for everything from retirement to college planning (as well as all the other standard investment options). I'm not sold on WL as "better than sliced bread" as it is taught to me... thoughts on Whole Life?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote financiallyfitNES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 10:31am
I am studying for my 7 now.. so all investment/financial planning stuff I have to bring in my partner or someone else from the firm.

I am looking to get my 7/66 this spring/summer- but I am wondering the best direction to go from there. Stick with insurance based backing or move on?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 10:38am
Originally posted by financiallyfitNES financiallyfitNES wrote:

Ok here is a more serious question I am legitimately curious of outside opinion. What are your thoughts of whole life insurance as an investment vehicle. To offer a market volatility buffer, tax free bucket of money, good dividend and interest earnings (growth) etc.. the firm I am at right now uses it for everything from retirement to college planning (as well as all the other standard investment options). I'm not sold on WL as "better than sliced bread" as it is taught to me... thoughts on Whole Life?

I think you already know the answer.

But here's my take (and others will have different opinions):
All types of permanent life insurance are basically good for three things, and three things only:
1. Buy/Sells and other business ownership/buyout needs where you can't allow expiration
2. Tax planning, where you need perm insurance to pay a tax bill at death
3. Legacy planning of various kinds (inheritance equalization, gifting, charity, etc.)

And more often than not, those 3 reasons overlap into single cases (ie. family owns a business, has to pay tax when legacy owner dies, wants to equalize inheritance so one child gets the business and the other gets cash).

Other than that, term insurance is appropriate in 90%+ of cases (yes, there are other occasional uses, but not many).

As an investment, there are so many other ways to beat it from every angle, that it's not worth the effort, and you're just forcing a square peg into a round hole.
"If Bellicheat pulls that rabbit out of his a$$ with this kid at quarterback, I'll personally kiss his ring." - Sporsfreak, 09/20/16

"Jags/Vikes Super Bowl. Write it down" - Sportsfreak 01/19/18
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D.H.K. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D.H.K. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 10:44am
Originally posted by financiallyfitNES financiallyfitNES wrote:

Ok here is a more serious question I am legitimately curious of outside opinion. What are your thoughts of whole life insurance as an investment vehicle. To offer a market volatility buffer, tax free bucket of money, good dividend and interest earnings (growth) etc.. the firm I am at right now uses it for everything from retirement to college planning (as well as all the other standard investment options). I'm not sold on WL as "better than sliced bread" as it is taught to me... thoughts on Whole Life?

It's great... if you have a LONG term perspective on it (far greater than 10+ years) compared to... well, it depends on what you want to compare it to.

But, if you really want some people's perspectives, there's an entire thread in the insurance forum regarding BTID specifically for me.  You can draw your own conclusions.

http://www.advisorheads.com/btid-vs-whole-life-for-dhk-and-others_topic12157.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bc2051 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 10:59am
Originally posted by D.H.K. D.H.K. wrote:

Originally posted by financiallyfitNES financiallyfitNES wrote:

Ok here is a more serious question I am legitimately curious of outside opinion. What are your thoughts of whole life insurance as an investment vehicle. To offer a market volatility buffer, tax free bucket of money, good dividend and interest earnings (growth) etc.. the firm I am at right now uses it for everything from retirement to college planning (as well as all the other standard investment options). I'm not sold on WL as "better than sliced bread" as it is taught to me... thoughts on Whole Life?


It's great... if you have a LONG term perspective on it (far greater than 10+ years) compared to... well, it depends on what you want to compare it to.

But, if you really want some people's perspectives, there's an entire thread in the insurance forum regarding BTID specifically for me.  You can draw your own conclusions.

http://www.advisorheads.com/btid-vs-whole-life-for-dhk-and-others_topic12157.html


Thing is- the longer the term, the more investments come out ahead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 11:06am
Originally posted by bc2051 bc2051 wrote:

 
Thing is- the longer the term, the more investments come out ahead

But, but, but, tax deferral! 

LIRP! Tax-free Loans!

Executive compensation!


"If Bellicheat pulls that rabbit out of his a$$ with this kid at quarterback, I'll personally kiss his ring." - Sporsfreak, 09/20/16

"Jags/Vikes Super Bowl. Write it down" - Sportsfreak 01/19/18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luvindy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 11:26am
I feel so late arriving more than 57 minutes after this question.
8/31/12,Sportsfreak:
"If Barak wins this election, or appears to be clearly winning, we are all fucked. Market will tank big time."
Dow 13,090 S&P 1406
5/23/13 UC:Dow 20k before 20% crrectn Dow 15,322
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fitness1983 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 1:02pm
Welcome.

I spent 8 years in the Fitness Industry. All kinds of certifications, sales awards blah blah blah.

Feel free to message me with some questions if you’d like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hacksaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by bc2051 bc2051 wrote:

Now would also be a good time to point out that realtors, contractors, and roofers will also make for shitty clients


Depends on the person. If they are more a business owner mentality that happens to be in these lines of business, they are pretty good clients.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D.H.K. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by bc2051 bc2051 wrote:

Originally posted by D.H.K. D.H.K. wrote:

Originally posted by financiallyfitNES financiallyfitNES wrote:

Ok here is a more serious question I am legitimately curious of outside opinion. What are your thoughts of whole life insurance as an investment vehicle. To offer a market volatility buffer, tax free bucket of money, good dividend and interest earnings (growth) etc.. the firm I am at right now uses it for everything from retirement to college planning (as well as all the other standard investment options). I'm not sold on WL as "better than sliced bread" as it is taught to me... thoughts on Whole Life?


It's great... if you have a LONG term perspective on it (far greater than 10+ years) compared to... well, it depends on what you want to compare it to.

But, if you really want some people's perspectives, there's an entire thread in the insurance forum regarding BTID specifically for me.  You can draw your own conclusions.

http://www.advisorheads.com/btid-vs-whole-life-for-dhk-and-others_topic12157.html


Thing is- the longer the term, the more investments come out ahead

"Savings and investments are similar words.  But as Mark Twain said - 'The difference between a similar word and the right word is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug.'." - John Savage, CLU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iamlegend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 8:15pm
Yeah realtors get an award for being a million $ producer.
Sell 1mm of RE at 6%=60k
Get about half of that and you make 30k before expenses.
And that assumes your broker is on both sides of the deal. If not cut that in half.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bc2051 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by Hacksaw Hacksaw wrote:

Originally posted by bc2051 bc2051 wrote:

Now would also be a good time to point out that 9 out of 10 realtors, contractors, and roofers will also make for shitty clients


Depends on the person. If they are more a business owner mentality that happens to be in these lines of business, they are pretty good clients.


Good point. I fixed it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bc2051 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by Iamlegend Iamlegend wrote:

Yeah realtors get an award for being a million $ producer.
Sell 1mm of RE at 6%=60k
Get about half of that and you make 30k before expenses.
And that assumes your broker is on both sides of the deal. If not cut that in half.


I wasn’t even considering this. I’m talking about how every realtor always finds the next “hot deal” in real estate and ends up with 45k in an IRA at age 60.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 8:44pm
Originally posted by bc2051 bc2051 wrote:

Originally posted by Iamlegend Iamlegend wrote:

Yeah realtors get an award for being a million $ producer.
Sell 1mm of RE at 6%=60k
Get about half of that and you make 30k before expenses.
And that assumes your broker is on both sides of the deal. If not cut that in half.


I wasn’t even considering this. I’m talking about how every realtor always finds the next “hot deal” in real estate and ends up with 45k in an IRA at age 60.


I'm friends with one of the top realtors in our market. He said that there are like 450 registered agents in our market, and 90% of the listing go to the top 10 agents. He said 70% of those 450 agents close 0 to 1 deal per year.

Basically, he said there are 10-15 agents fucking killing it, another few dozen that make a comfortable living or decent 2nd income in the household, and everyone else is just part-timing it or have no idea how to market themselves and burn out quickly.
"If Bellicheat pulls that rabbit out of his a$$ with this kid at quarterback, I'll personally kiss his ring." - Sporsfreak, 09/20/16

"Jags/Vikes Super Bowl. Write it down" - Sportsfreak 01/19/18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bc2051 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by D.H.K. D.H.K. wrote:

Originally posted by bc2051 bc2051 wrote:

Originally posted by D.H.K. D.H.K. wrote:

Originally posted by financiallyfitNES financiallyfitNES wrote:

Ok here is a more serious question I am legitimately curious of outside opinion. What are your thoughts of whole life insurance as an investment vehicle. To offer a market volatility buffer, tax free bucket of money, good dividend and interest earnings (growth) etc.. the firm I am at right now uses it for everything from retirement to college planning (as well as all the other standard investment options). I'm not sold on WL as "better than sliced bread" as it is taught to me... thoughts on Whole Life?


It's great... if you have a LONG term perspective on it (far greater than 10+ years) compared to... well, it depends on what you want to compare it to.

But, if you really want some people's perspectives, there's an entire thread in the insurance forum regarding BTID specifically for me.  You can draw your own conclusions.

http://www.advisorheads.com/btid-vs-whole-life-for-dhk-and-others_topic12157.html


Thing is- the longer the term, the more investments come out ahead


"Savings and investments are similar words.  But as Mark Twain said - 'The difference between a similar word and the right word is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug.'." - John Savage, CLU


If my savings acct had a negative next to it for the first 17 yrs.....sorry DHK, you set that right up for me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bc2051 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by B24 B24 wrote:

Originally posted by bc2051 bc2051 wrote:

Originally posted by Iamlegend Iamlegend wrote:

Yeah realtors get an award for being a million $ producer.
Sell 1mm of RE at 6%=60k
Get about half of that and you make 30k before expenses.
And that assumes your broker is on both sides of the deal. If not cut that in half.


I wasn’t even considering this. I’m talking about how every realtor always finds the next “hot deal” in real estate and ends up with 45k in an IRA at age 60.


I'm friends with one of the top realtors in our market. He said that there are like 450 registered agents in our market, and 90% of the listing go to the top 10 agents. He said 70% of those 450 agents close 0 to 1 deal per year.

Basically, he said there are 10-15 agents fucking killing it, another few dozen that make a comfortable living or decent 2nd income in the household, and everyone else is just part-timing it or have no idea how to market themselves and burn out quickly.


You just may prove my point here. You’re good friends with a top 10% realtor. Does he have an acct with you? If yes, more or less than what most people his age have? If no, does he invest at all?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by bc2051 bc2051 wrote:

Originally posted by B24 B24 wrote:

Originally posted by bc2051 bc2051 wrote:

Originally posted by Iamlegend Iamlegend wrote:

Yeah realtors get an award for being a million $ producer.
Sell 1mm of RE at 6%=60k
Get about half of that and you make 30k before expenses.
And that assumes your broker is on both sides of the deal. If not cut that in half.


I wasn’t even considering this. I’m talking about how every realtor always finds the next “hot deal” in real estate and ends up with 45k in an IRA at age 60.


I'm friends with one of the top realtors in our market. He said that there are like 450 registered agents in our market, and 90% of the listing go to the top 10 agents. He said 70% of those 450 agents close 0 to 1 deal per year.

Basically, he said there are 10-15 agents fucking killing it, another few dozen that make a comfortable living or decent 2nd income in the household, and everyone else is just part-timing it or have no idea how to market themselves and burn out quickly.


You just may prove my point here. You’re good friends with a top 10% realtor. Does he have an acct with you? If yes, more or less than what most people his age have? If no, does he invest at all?


I wasn't commenting either way, just giving some perspective.

He does not invest with me, but he's fucking loaded. He gave me some stats, and I estimated he was pulling down $1mm+ in most years before marketing costs (which are considerable). And yes, a ton of his wealth is in real estate.

But again, he's an outlier, and also not the biggest producer in our area.

I have never had a real estate agent as a client. But I easily know 50 real estate agents, and most are pikers (quite a few by choice - 2nd incomes, moms, etc.)

Edited by B24 - Feb/27/2018 at 9:54pm
"If Bellicheat pulls that rabbit out of his a$$ with this kid at quarterback, I'll personally kiss his ring." - Sporsfreak, 09/20/16

"Jags/Vikes Super Bowl. Write it down" - Sportsfreak 01/19/18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/27/2018 at 9:58pm
Let's just all agree realtors are shitty clients and a shitty market to prospect.
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