New Advisor for RJFS
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Topic: New Advisor for RJFS
Posted By: Aolmos
Subject: New Advisor for RJFS
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 3:13pm
Hello,
I am a relatively new advisor (Dec 2019) with Raymond James working in a family office. Currently working to build my book of business.Prior to joining, I worked closely with my university's endowment with a pure equity portfolio ($4.5m) and looking to lean that experience into my practice. My strength is in equity portfolios so I am targeting millennial money. I do not think 50+ year old retirees want advice from a 23 year old.
Nearing $1m in AUM but prospects have began to slow and training is non-existent in the office. The idea of cold calling individuals asking to quickly look over their portfolio after the COVID draw down seems like a semi-decent idea. The FAs in the office have been getting nice referrals off of poor performance with other advisors. Any advice/critiques would be greatly appreciated. CFA Level II candidate if that counts for anything and wish to pursue a Masters in Finance Engineering in the future.
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Replies:
Posted By: Hacksaw
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 3:23pm
Are you enrolled in the AMP program?
If you joined a “family office”, why are they expecting you to bring in assets at 23?
Advice - don’t get paralysis by analysis. You need clients. They will work with you if they like you and trust you. Your equity selection skills are far down the line. You need people with money, whether they’re 25 or 75.
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 4:01pm
No, I am not. Not even sure what that is.
Apologies, I thought family office literally meant just a small office. I am working directly under an independent FA that is absorbing the costs until my production is enough to essentially live off. I am paid to help aide in her practice.
Understandable, I am currently joining any group possible to talk to more people. Those involved usually have no clue about investing and do not have much assets (<50k). Do you think my strategy is at all worth it or have you tried it before?
Equity selection is not far down the line and rather not put clients in fee-ridden funds. I do not want to divulge the portfolio in its entirety but it follows S&P weighting and valuation models are provided by our sell-side analyst. The portfolio is live and spits out daily jupyter notebook tear sheets with portfolio analytics. I have toned down the analysis but not doing research feels like selling snake oil.
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Posted By: PEACH_cm
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 4:08pm
Welcome young grasshopper
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Posted By: luvindy
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 4:08pm
How good looking is the cougar you're working for?
A "family office" is a firm with something like 10 clients with 20 million each, or similar profile. You pay all of their bills, and wipe the asshole of the waste of space grandkids' asses for grandma and grandpa because of the ridiculous fees they pay you. I was hoping to hear from one of those from the inside.
------------- 8/31/12,Sportsfreak: "If Barak wins this election, or appears to be clearly winning, we are all fucked. Market will tank big time." Dow 13,090 S&P 1406 5/23/13 UC:Dow 20k before 20% crrectn Dow 15,
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 4:14pm
She was hot as hell when she was my age but solid 5.5/10 now
Yes sorry about that but sounds like hell.
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Posted By: Moraen
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 4:15pm
Aolmos wrote:
Hello,
I am a relatively new advisor (Dec 2019) with Raymond James working in a family office. Currently working to build my book of business.Prior to joining, I worked closely with my university's endowment with a pure equity portfolio ($4.5m) and looking to lean that experience into my practice. My strength is in equity portfolios so I am targeting millennial money. I do not think 50+ year old retirees want advice from a 23 year old.
Nearing $1m in AUM but prospects have began to slow and training is non-existent in the office. The idea of cold calling individuals asking to quickly look over their portfolio after the COVID draw down seems like a semi-decent idea. The FAs in the office have been getting nice referrals off of poor performance with other advisors. Any advice/critiques would be greatly appreciated. CFA Level II candidate if that counts for anything and wish to pursue a Masters in Finance Engineering in the future.
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Unless your long-term goals have to deal with being in Fintech or asset management, I think you should avoid the Master's in Financial Engineering. Unless you are just doing it for the education and knowledge.
Clients don't care.
------------- I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all. - General James Mattis
Fiduciary as Fuck - iMo
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 4:19pm
Its purely for the knowledge. I am half way decent at python and want to learn more. I would like to focus more on the asset management side.
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 4:20pm
Posted By: Moraen
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 4:21pm
Aolmos wrote:
No, I am not. Not even sure what that is.
Apologies, I thought family office literally meant just a small office. I am working directly under an independent FA that is absorbing the costs until my production is enough to essentially live off. I am paid to help aide in her practice.
Understandable, I am currently joining any group possible to talk to more people. Those involved usually have no clue about investing and do not have much assets (<50k). Do you think my strategy is at all worth it or have you tried it before?
Equity selection is not far down the line and rather not put clients in fee-ridden funds. I do not want to divulge the portfolio in its entirety but it follows S&P weighting and valuation models are provided by our sell-side analyst. The portfolio is live and spits out daily jupyter notebook tear sheets with portfolio analytics. I have toned down the analysis but not doing research feels like selling snake oil. |
You have to pick what you want. Do you want more assets, or do you want to do analysis? It's not snake oil to sell tried and true asset allocations with index funds.
You need to get to scale first. Then you can worry about this if you want. Trust me. I spent many many many years doing exactly what you are talking about. I'd say it's cost me about $60MM in AUM.
------------- I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all. - General James Mattis
Fiduciary as Fuck - iMo
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 4:24pm
I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options.
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Posted By: Moraen
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 4:25pm
Aolmos wrote:
Its purely for the knowledge. I am half way decent at python and want to learn more. I would like to focus more on the asset management side. |
Are you trying to build trading models? The programming language is a tool (you can build as good, or better models in R). I think you need to figure out what you want. Do you want to make a $1 million a year? Gathering assets gets you there.
I'm all for you getting more education, but you need to pull assets in order to manage them.
------------- I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all. - General James Mattis
Fiduciary as Fuck - iMo
|
Posted By: missionshooter
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 4:26pm
Why not go work on the asset management side as an analyst and work your way up to assistant portfolio mngr?
Why do this kind of shit for millenials who dont understand WTF you are talking about and proposing for them?
You would be better off charging an annual planning fee for High income millenials wanting to pay off student loans, buy a house, etc.
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Posted By: Moraen
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 4:26pm
Aolmos wrote:
I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. |
It's not a good idea. Selling on performance is a fool's game.
You aren't stupid, just uninformed.
------------- I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all. - General James Mattis
Fiduciary as Fuck - iMo
|
Posted By: Wet_Blanket
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 4:29pm
luvindy wrote:
How good looking is the cougar you're working for?
A "family office" is a firm with something like 10 clients with 20 million each, or similar profile. You pay all of their bills, and wipe the asshole waste of space grandkids' asses for grandma and grandpa because of the ridiculous fees you pay them. I was hoping to hear from one of those from the inside.
| Sorry, this is the midwest yokkle definition of family office.
An actual family office is a money manager for a wealthy family. There are restrictions they have to observe in order to stay away from having to be registered.
------------- The true 🤡 was the Biden voter all along.
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Posted By: B24
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 4:41pm
Aolmos wrote:
I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. |
Sure, it can work once in a while. And you can usually find something to criticize about ANY client's portfolio.
But it's really not the best approach to take. Look at it this way...if you are going to attract clients that are going to move based on you ripping apart another advisor's portfolio, then it's only a matter of time before that client finds a "better mousetrap" or starts questioning your portfolio because it's not performing the way you "sold it" to him.
------------- "If Bellicheat pulls that rabbit out of his a$$ with this kid at quarterback, I'll personally kiss his ring." - Sporsfreak, 09/20/16
"Jags/Vikes Super Bowl. Write it down" - Sportsfreak 01/19/18
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Posted By: luvindy
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 4:57pm
Wet_Blanket wrote:
luvindy wrote:
How good looking is the cougar you're working for?
A "family office" is a firm with something like 10 clients with 20 million each, or similar profile. You pay all of their bills, and wipe the asshole waste of space grandkids' asses for grandma and grandpa because of the ridiculous fees you pay them. I was hoping to hear from one of those from the inside.
| Sorry, this is the midwest yokkle definition of family office.
An actual family office is a money manager for a wealthy family. There are restrictions they have to observe in order to stay away from having to be registered. |
I fixed my OP because I realized I fucked up some of the wording in my eagerness to rip on it.
Would it be fair to say dudes with a lot of longevity in the "financial advisor" role spin their top families into something more like what I described?
What does "money manager" mean in the way you're describing it? Do you do compliance for some of these types of offices?
------------- 8/31/12,Sportsfreak: "If Barak wins this election, or appears to be clearly winning, we are all fucked. Market will tank big time." Dow 13,090 S&P 1406 5/23/13 UC:Dow 20k before 20% crrectn Dow 15,
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Posted By: Wet_Blanket
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 5:08pm
luvindy wrote:
Wet_Blanket wrote:
luvindy wrote:
How good looking is the cougar you're working for?
A "family office" is a firm with something like 10 clients with 20 million each, or similar profile. You pay all of their bills, and wipe the asshole waste of space grandkids' asses for grandma and grandpa because of the ridiculous fees you pay them. I was hoping to hear from one of those from the inside.
| Sorry, this is the midwest yokkle definition of family office.
An actual family office is a money manager for a wealthy family. There are restrictions they have to observe in order to stay away from having to be registered. |
I fixed my OP because I realized I fucked up some of the wording in my eagerness to rip on it.
Would it be fair to say dudes with a lot of longevity in the "financial advisor" role spin their top families into something more like what I described?
What does "money manager" mean in the way you're describing it? Do you do compliance for some of these types of offices?
| It's possible, what you are describing.
I use the term "money manager" because they are most likely unregistered. They can only advise (money management, bill pay, estate planning, etc.) members of a specific family, and I believe it only includes a span of like 3 generations - so a true family office can't be a perpetual entity without registration). I met a guy at a conference once that was from very old blue money that wanted to fire their current advisor and start a family office - so I did some light research on the topic and referred him to a securities attorney. I also used to work at a RIA that started off as a family office for a big American "clan".
Then I have clients, one in particular, that is a very big deal in the advisory space (like 9 out of 10 times when I am reviewing a marketing piece about overall investing, he is quoted in the piece). He runs a SEC registered IA with his partner (not married) and I think they only have 10 to 20 clients that they service.
The family office exemption had to get a facelift due to Dodd Frank, so here is the most up to date rules regarding it.
https://www.sec.gov/rules/final/2011/ia-3220.pdf" rel="nofollow - https://www.sec.gov/rules/final/2011/ia-3220.pdf
------------- The true 🤡 was the Biden voter all along.
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 5:30pm
Moraen wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
Its purely for the knowledge. I am half way decent at python and want to learn more. I would like to focus more on the asset management side. |
Are you trying to build trading models? The programming language is a tool (you can build as good, or better models in R). I think you need to figure out what you want. Do you want to make a $1 million a year? Gathering assets gets you there.
I'm all for you getting more education, but you need to pull assets in order to manage them.
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I do not want to make $1m a year at a certain point would rather operate as a psuedo non-profit. I want to help people getting screwed by 63 year old advisor with portfolios full of bullshit. I see them come in every week.
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 5:38pm
Moraen wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. |
It's not a good idea. Selling on performance is a fool's game.
You aren't stupid, just uninformed.
|
I understand helping them set up their future and general wealth management. I am not trying to sell "performance" but rather sound portfolios with low expenses. A 734k household came in today with 25% in GLD and down -30% YTD. There has to be more of these in my city of people just getting screwed. We are home to one of the worst universities in the state so it does not amaze me that the advisors being spit out are trash.
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 5:40pm
B24 wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. |
Sure, it can work once in a while. And you can usually find something to criticize about ANY client's portfolio.
But it's really not the best approach to take. Look at it this way...if you are going to attract clients that are going to move based on you ripping apart another advisor's portfolio, then it's only a matter of time before that client finds a "better mousetrap" or starts questioning your portfolio because it's not performing the way you "sold it" to him.
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Appreciate the advice and you are right that at any time I can be exposed to a black swan so understandable. The fear to actually perform is actually were most of motivation lies. Throwing people into a 60/40 is dull but safe, I get it.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 5:48pm
I can’t believe no one has said this yet. You should just work at vanguard
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Posted By: Moraen
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 5:50pm
Aolmos wrote:
Moraen wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. |
It's not a good idea. Selling on performance is a fool's game.
You aren't stupid, just uninformed.
|
I understand helping them set up their future and general wealth management. I am not trying to sell "performance" but rather sound portfolios with low expenses. A 734k household came in today with 25% in GLD and down -30% YTD. There has to be more of these in my city of people just getting screwed. We are home to one of the worst universities in the state so it does not amaze me that the advisors being spit out are trash. |
Would it amaze you to know that advisors don't really even need a college degree?
One thing I would say is that you may what to give other advisors the benefit of the doubt. I put it at 80% probability that the reason they have 25% in GLD is because the CLIENTS asked for it, or demanded it. Then, when it under performs, they blame the advisor.
We fight these battles with clients every day. The newer ones more so than the ones we've had for a while.
You will learn this the longer you do this, but clients lie when they go to other advisors.
------------- I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all. - General James Mattis
Fiduciary as Fuck - iMo
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 5:50pm
What you are missing “with all of your smarts” is that even the best portfolio managers got their ass handed to them in March. Your clients won’t care if you beat a benchmark, other advisors, or buffett himself. You still lost them money and that’s all the really know
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Posted By: Moraen
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 5:51pm
bc2051 wrote:
I can’t believe no one has said this yet. You should just work at vanguard |
But then he can't use all of his skills.
They don't know how to use Python at Vanguard.
------------- I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all. - General James Mattis
Fiduciary as Fuck - iMo
|
Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 5:51pm
missionshooter wrote:
Why not go work on the asset management side as an analyst and work your way up to assistant portfolio mngr?
Why do this kind of shit for millenials who dont understand WTF you are talking about and proposing for them?
You would be better off charging an annual planning fee for High income millenials wanting to pay off student loans, buy a house, etc. |
I think ultimately this is the path I should have taken unfortunately coming from a non-target getting my foot in the door was difficult. The issue now being that having my own clients (10) is pushing me to stay in this field especially since I do not want to give up them.
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Posted By: PEACH_cm
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 5:51pm
bc2051 wrote:
I can’t believe no one has said this yet. You should just work at vanguard | or what was that RIA in Oklahoma City...... can’t believe I forgot the name of it
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 5:53pm
bc2051 wrote:
I can’t believe no one has said this yet. You should just work at vanguard |
I have looked at the FADP but do not know if that a great idea given that I am already licensed and have clients.
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 5:54pm
Moraen wrote:
bc2051 wrote:
I can’t believe no one has said this yet. You should just work at vanguard |
But then he can't use all of his skills.
They don't know how to use Python at Vanguard.
|
I have seen pictures of the cubicles with monitors from 2012. It put me off lol. The dream would be Jump, Two-Sigma or Citadel type firms but I think that ship has sailed.
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Posted By: PEACH_cm
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 5:55pm
Aolmos wrote:
missionshooter wrote:
Why not go work on the asset management side as an analyst and work your way up to assistant portfolio mngr?
Why do this kind of shit for millenials who dont understand WTF you are talking about and proposing for them?
You would be better off charging an annual planning fee for High income millenials wanting to pay off student loans, buy a house, etc. |
I think ultimately this is the path I should have taken unfortunately coming from a non-target getting my foot in the door was difficult. The issue now being that having my own clients (10) is pushing me to stay in this field especially since I do not want to give up them. | if you get into an analyst program and succeed the current clients truly don’t matter.
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 5:57pm
bc2051 wrote:
What you are missing “with all of your smarts” is that even the best portfolio managers got their ass handed to them in March. Your clients won’t care if you beat a benchmark, other advisors, or buffett himself. You still lost them money and that’s all the really know |
Yea the FAs here have warned me about this that down is down and the concept of sharpe is too much. Regardless, I still track this to ensure I am in line. Under-performing is inevitable but not paying 1.25% AUM fee and .89% ER is easily avoidable.
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 6:00pm
PEACH_cm wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
missionshooter wrote:
Why not go work on the asset management side as an analyst and work your way up to assistant portfolio mngr?
Why do this kind of shit for millenials who dont understand WTF you are talking about and proposing for them?
You would be better off charging an annual planning fee for High income millenials wanting to pay off student loans, buy a house, etc. |
I think ultimately this is the path I should have taken unfortunately coming from a non-target getting my foot in the door was difficult. The issue now being that having my own clients (10) is pushing me to stay in this field especially since I do not want to give up them. | if you get into an analyst program and succeed the current clients truly don’t matter. |
Man y'all are ruthless in here huh. I care about my current clients and would like to help to continue to help them. I think about going to a fund on the daily basis and even apply to see if one hooks. Has anybody had the experience of somebody completely giving up on being an FA for lets say IBD?
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 6:03pm
Moraen wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
Moraen wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. |
It's not a good idea. Selling on performance is a fool's game.
You aren't stupid, just uninformed.
|
I understand helping them set up their future and general wealth management. I am not trying to sell "performance" but rather sound portfolios with low expenses. A 734k household came in today with 25% in GLD and down -30% YTD. There has to be more of these in my city of people just getting screwed. We are home to one of the worst universities in the state so it does not amaze me that the advisors being spit out are trash. |
Would it amaze you to know that advisors don't really even need a college degree?
One thing I would say is that you may what to give other advisors the benefit of the doubt. I put it at 80% probability that the reason they have 25% in GLD is because the CLIENTS asked for it, or demanded it. Then, when it under performs, they blame the advisor.
We fight these battles with clients every day. The newer ones more so than the ones we've had for a while.
You will learn this the longer you do this, but clients lie when they go to other advisors. |
Another FA's client was adamant about buying NKLA today. I warned of earnings, a couple thousand dollars in Rev, and no actual cars but he persisted. Bought it prior earnings at $38 lol. I know he will blame the FA for letting him do it.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 6:10pm
Aolmos wrote:
bc2051 wrote:
What you are missing “with all of your smarts” is that even the best portfolio managers got their ass handed to them in March. Your clients won’t care if you beat a benchmark, other advisors, or buffett himself. You still lost them money and that’s all the really know |
Yea the FAs here have warned me about this that down is down and the concept of sharpe is too much. Regardless, I still track this to ensure I am in line. Under-performing is inevitable but not paying 1.25% AUM fee and .89% ER is easily avoidable. |
I get the high expense ratio, but what is your plan to make money?
There is nothing wrong with pointing out all-in fees of 2% to a prospect, but chill on the sharpe BS when talking to them. In the real world, you’re 23 and their advisor has been doing it 20 yrs, has experienced actual market cycles, paid for their kids college with American funds, and goes to their church
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Posted By: memphis
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 6:19pm
Aolmos wrote:
Another FA's client was adamant about buying NKLA today. I warned of earnings, a couple thousand dollars in Rev, and no actual cars but he persisted. Bought it prior earnings at $38 lol. I know he will blame the FA for letting him do it. |
Gambling is for retail accounts. I’m a fiduciary and I’m not going to charge you an advisory fee to play spin the wheel. I had this exact conversation regarding a pot stock last year.
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 6:24pm
bc2051 wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
bc2051 wrote:
What you are missing “with all of your smarts” is that even the best portfolio managers got their ass handed to them in March. Your clients won’t care if you beat a benchmark, other advisors, or buffett himself. You still lost them money and that’s all the really know |
Yea the FAs here have warned me about this that down is down and the concept of sharpe is too much. Regardless, I still track this to ensure I am in line. Under-performing is inevitable but not paying 1.25% AUM fee and .89% ER is easily avoidable. |
I get the high expense ratio, but what is your plan to make money?
There is nothing wrong with pointing out all-in fees of 2% to a prospect, but chill on the sharpe BS when talking to them. In the real world, you’re 23 and their advisor has been doing it 20 yrs, has experienced actual market cycles, paid for their kids college with American funds, and goes to their church |
The million dollar question right there. Take to as many people as possible, help them to my best abilities and hope for referrals. It's a relationship business and need to meet people so I have joined multiple groups for walks, runs, data science, chess and rugby. Going to be volunteering my time with a homeless shelter, animal shelter and Ronald McDonald House. All just to gain business which I feel like a scum for but fuck it.
We have 401(k) clients that produce a healthy stream of rollovers that ill tap into. Participants become eligible they will get a call. Participant was terminated they will get a call. Participant is retiring they will get a call.
Or I can just cold call and pitch NKLA who knows. Give me some advice please.
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 6:31pm
memphis wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
Another FA's client was adamant about buying NKLA today. I warned of earnings, a couple thousand dollars in Rev, and no actual cars but he persisted. Bought it prior earnings at $38 lol. I know he will blame the FA for letting him do it. |
Gambling is for retail accounts. I’m a fiduciary and I’m not going to charge you an advisory fee to play spin the wheel. I had this exact conversation regarding a pot stock last year. |
Its a commission account
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 6:43pm
Aolmos wrote:
bc2051 wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
bc2051 wrote:
What you are missing “with all of your smarts” is that even the best portfolio managers got their ass handed to them in March. Your clients won’t care if you beat a benchmark, other advisors, or buffett himself. You still lost them money and that’s all the really know |
Yea the FAs here have warned me about this that down is down and the concept of sharpe is too much. Regardless, I still track this to ensure I am in line. Under-performing is inevitable but not paying 1.25% AUM fee and .89% ER is easily avoidable. |
I get the high expense ratio, but what is your plan to make money?
There is nothing wrong with pointing out all-in fees of 2% to a prospect, but chill on the sharpe BS when talking to them. In the real world, you’re 23 and their advisor has been doing it 20 yrs, has experienced actual market cycles, paid for their kids college with American funds, and goes to their church |
The million dollar question right there. Take to as many people as possible, help them to my best abilities and hope for referrals. It's a relationship business and need to meet people so I have joined multiple groups for walks, runs, data science, chess and rugby. Going to be volunteering my time with a homeless shelter, animal shelter and Ronald McDonald House. All just to gain business which I feel like a scum for but fuck it.
We have 401(k) clients that produce a healthy stream of rollovers that ill tap into. Participants become eligible they will get a call. Participant was terminated they will get a call. Participant is retiring they will get a call.
Or I can just cold call and pitch NKLA who knows. Give me some advice please. |
My point was you’re beating up the 1.25 mgmt fee and the high expense ratio. Is one okay, but both? What is your mgmt fee?
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Posted By: Jack50
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 6:45pm
Aolmos wrote:
I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. |
APAC?
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 6:54pm
bc2051 wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
bc2051 wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
bc2051 wrote:
What you are missing “with all of your smarts” is that even the best portfolio managers got their ass handed to them in March. Your clients won’t care if you beat a benchmark, other advisors, or buffett himself. You still lost them money and that’s all the really know |
Yea the FAs here have warned me about this that down is down and the concept of sharpe is too much. Regardless, I still track this to ensure I am in line. Under-performing is inevitable but not paying 1.25% AUM fee and .89% ER is easily avoidable. |
I get the high expense ratio, but what is your plan to make money?
There is nothing wrong with pointing out all-in fees of 2% to a prospect, but chill on the sharpe BS when talking to them. In the real world, you’re 23 and their advisor has been doing it 20 yrs, has experienced actual market cycles, paid for their kids college with American funds, and goes to their church |
The million dollar question right there. Take to as many people as possible, help them to my best abilities and hope for referrals. It's a relationship business and need to meet people so I have joined multiple groups for walks, runs, data science, chess and rugby. Going to be volunteering my time with a homeless shelter, animal shelter and Ronald McDonald House. All just to gain business which I feel like a scum for but fuck it.
We have 401(k) clients that produce a healthy stream of rollovers that ill tap into. Participants become eligible they will get a call. Participant was terminated they will get a call. Participant is retiring they will get a call.
Or I can just cold call and pitch NKLA who knows. Give me some advice please. |
My point was you’re beating up the 1.25 mgmt fee and the high expense ratio. Is one okay, but both? What is your mgmt fee? |
0.75% and most assets are in the all equity portfolio so 0.00% ER A high ER along with a high AUM fee is an instant turnoff to me and younger generations I have found.
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 6:54pm
Jack50 wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. |
APAC? |
California
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Posted By: memphis
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 7:09pm
Aolmos wrote:
0.75% and most assets are in the all equity portfolio so 0.00% ERA high ER along with a high AUM fee is an instant turnoff to me and younger generations I have found. |
This is not a knock because I have gotten accounts by competing on fees, but once you start making that a core differentiator it's a slippery slope. Someone can always do it cheaper.
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 7:12pm
memphis wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
0.75% and most assets are in the all equity portfolio so 0.00% ERA high ER along with a high AUM fee is an instant turnoff to me and younger generations I have found. |
This is not a knock because I have gotten accounts by competing on fees, but once you start making that a core differentiator it's a slippery slope. Someone can always do it cheaper. |
I have been warned appreciate it being echoed in time with a better practice new clients will pay a high fee once I deem it fit. The RenTech 5% and 44% is appealing .
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Aug/04/2020 at 7:14pm
Posted By: Hacksaw
Date Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 8:58am
23 and feel like you’re smarter than everyone else. I remember those days.
Curious on the math side of this since you are obviously knowledgeable enough if you have already done CFAI. Client had $50k. You charge .75% = $375. Raymond James is probably taking somewhere around 15-20% when you include all fees/costs = $300 left. Your office has overhead, so maybe another 15% = $244. But they probably want to make something, so another 10% of your production = $207. So you make $207 on each household a year. Because of your high cost of time in what you plan to do from an analysis side, you can service 150 clients effectively. 150 x $207 = $31k/year. Even if you were really efficient and could double the households, that’s $62k.
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Posted By: Hacksaw
Date Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 9:04am
Aolmos wrote:
I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. |
Any client that comes to you because you ripped apart a portfolio will leave when someone shows them a backtested morningstar showing how they would have outperformed even with the fees.
Learn to sell the pen. At $1mm AUM, you’re not making any money.
The AMP program is the Raymond James training program. Ask the lady you’re under if she can look to put you in it. It would cost her money, but might also show you how she views you.
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Posted By: missionshooter
Date Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 9:16am
Hacksaw wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. |
Any client that comes to you because you ripped apart a portfolio will leave when someone shows them a backtested morningstar showing how they would have outperformed even with the fees.
Learn to sell the pen. At $1mm AUM, you’re not making any money.
The AMP program is the Raymond James training program. Ask the lady you’re under if she can look to put you in it. It would cost her money, but might also show you how she views you. |
Duggan,
Any idea how much would it cost her?
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Posted By: Moraen
Date Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 9:31am
Aolmos wrote:
bc2051 wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
bc2051 wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
bc2051 wrote:
What you are missing “with all of your smarts” is that even the best portfolio managers got their ass handed to them in March. Your clients won’t care if you beat a benchmark, other advisors, or buffett himself. You still lost them money and that’s all the really know |
Yea the FAs here have warned me about this that down is down and the concept of sharpe is too much. Regardless, I still track this to ensure I am in line. Under-performing is inevitable but not paying 1.25% AUM fee and .89% ER is easily avoidable. |
I get the high expense ratio, but what is your plan to make money?
There is nothing wrong with pointing out all-in fees of 2% to a prospect, but chill on the sharpe BS when talking to them. In the real world, you’re 23 and their advisor has been doing it 20 yrs, has experienced actual market cycles, paid for their kids college with American funds, and goes to their church |
The million dollar question right there. Take to as many people as possible, help them to my best abilities and hope for referrals. It's a relationship business and need to meet people so I have joined multiple groups for walks, runs, data science, chess and rugby. Going to be volunteering my time with a homeless shelter, animal shelter and Ronald McDonald House. All just to gain business which I feel like a scum for but fuck it.
We have 401(k) clients that produce a healthy stream of rollovers that ill tap into. Participants become eligible they will get a call. Participant was terminated they will get a call. Participant is retiring they will get a call.
Or I can just cold call and pitch NKLA who knows. Give me some advice please. |
My point was you’re beating up the 1.25 mgmt fee and the high expense ratio. Is one okay, but both? What is your mgmt fee? |
0.75% and most assets are in the all equity portfolio so 0.00% ER A high ER along with a high AUM fee is an instant turnoff to me and younger generations I have found. |
It's definitely a good way to hook the younger generation. They certainly don't like paying for good service.
The portfolio is not what is going to kill them. It's going to be tax mistakes, purchasing mistakes, not saving enough, making poor decisions around inheritances.
Portfolios are the easy part. Client behavior is the problem. I'd say a good advisor who is experienced does more for clients by simply preventing them from doing stupid shit. Spiff is a good example of this. I don't know Spiff IRL, but I suspect he just uses some good common sense statements to keep most of his clients from doing something really dumb.
I have a client who has probably paid me over $500k the last ten years, but I've saved her well over $3MM in stupid mistakes. Her portfolio rarely changes and performs very well. She was able to "retire" at 46, pulls $180k+ per year off of it, and it still continues to grow.
------------- I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all. - General James Mattis
Fiduciary as Fuck - iMo
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Posted By: Moraen
Date Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 9:36am
Hacksaw wrote:
23 and feel like you’re smarter than everyone else. I remember those days.
Curious on the math side of this since you are obviously knowledgeable enough if you have already done CFAI. Client had $50k. You charge .75% = $375. Raymond James is probably taking somewhere around 15-20% when you include all fees/costs = $300 left. Your office has overhead, so maybe another 15% = $244. But they probably want to make something, so another 10% of your production = $207. So you make $207 on each household a year. Because of your high cost of time in what you plan to do from an analysis side, you can service 150 clients effectively. 150 x $207 = $31k/year. Even if you were really efficient and could double the households, that’s $62k. |
I'd say that's high. As he gets more clients, he will have less time. So he will have to sacrifice something.
- Updating models (if he is going the full quant route, you can't just update a few things, you have to test and re-test constantly) - Client acquisition - Servicing existing clients
As one increases, time to the others have to be cut.
The curve on how much time you spend prospecting is parabolic, so you will end up getting fewer client. The curve gets flattened the more time you spend on other items.
IF he could serve 150 clients, he won't get there until he's had 20 years in the business if he is doing all of this.
------------- I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all. - General James Mattis
Fiduciary as Fuck - iMo
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Posted By: B24
Date Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 9:59am
Moraen wrote:
The portfolio is not what is going to kill them. It's going to be tax mistakes, purchasing mistakes, not saving enough, making poor decisions around inheritances.
Portfolios are the easy part. Client behavior is the problem. I'd say a good advisor who is experienced does more for clients by simply preventing them from doing stupid shit. Spiff is a good example of this. I don't know Spiff IRL, but I suspect he just uses some good common sense statements to keep most of his clients from doing something really dumb.
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This is it in a nutshell.
That's one of the reasons I focus so much on planning. I save clients so much by helping them avoid doing dumb things. Most of the BIG money revolves around taxes. Avoiding taking big distributions for big expenditures, avoiding IRMA bumps, avoiding deduction phase-outs, timing retirement, pension, and SS correctly to capitalize on low-income and making Roth conversions, timing stock option exercises correctly to avoid huge income bumps, using account withdrawal strategy early in retirement to get ACA medical subsidies by keeping income low prior to Medicare, etc. Even really obvious shit like clients not realizing how IRA withdrawals affect more than just taxes.
There's lots of shit that you can do to save clients money. Everyone talks smack about charging for "planning", but for a lot of clients, I save them way more than their planning fees AND their advisory fees combined.
------------- "If Bellicheat pulls that rabbit out of his a$$ with this kid at quarterback, I'll personally kiss his ring." - Sporsfreak, 09/20/16
"Jags/Vikes Super Bowl. Write it down" - Sportsfreak 01/19/18
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Posted By: Jack50
Date Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 12:30pm
the future..
asset allocation and fund management has been commoditized
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Posted By: Hacksaw
Date Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 1:24pm
Moraen wrote:
Hacksaw wrote:
23 and feel like you’re smarter than everyone else. I remember those days.
Curious on the math side of this since you are obviously knowledgeable enough if you have already done CFAI. Client had $50k. You charge .75% = $375. Raymond James is probably taking somewhere around 15-20% when you include all fees/costs = $300 left. Your office has overhead, so maybe another 15% = $244. But they probably want to make something, so another 10% of your production = $207. So you make $207 on each household a year. Because of your high cost of time in what you plan to do from an analysis side, you can service 150 clients effectively. 150 x $207 = $31k/year. Even if you were really efficient and could double the households, that’s $62k. |
I'd say that's high. As he gets more clients, he will have less time. So he will have to sacrifice something.
- Updating models (if he is going the full quant route, you can't just update a few things, you have to test and re-test constantly) - Client acquisition - Servicing existing clients
As one increases, time to the others have to be cut.
The curve on how much time you spend prospecting is parabolic, so you will end up getting fewer client. The curve gets flattened the more time you spend on other items.
IF he could serve 150 clients, he won't get there until he's had 20 years in the business if he is doing all of this.
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I was assuming he was running a single model, and it would take years to get to 150 clients.
Basically, the finances don't work.
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Posted By: Hacksaw
Date Posted: Aug/05/2020 at 1:26pm
missionshooter wrote:
Hacksaw wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. |
Any client that comes to you because you ripped apart a portfolio will leave when someone shows them a backtested morningstar showing how they would have outperformed even with the fees.
Learn to sell the pen. At $1mm AUM, you’re not making any money.
The AMP program is the Raymond James training program. Ask the lady you’re under if she can look to put you in it. It would cost her money, but might also show you how she views you. |
Duggan,
Any idea how much would it cost her?
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$10k plus getting them back and forth to Tampa a few times.
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Posted By: apac
Date Posted: Aug/06/2020 at 10:08pm
Aolmos wrote:
Jack50 wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. |
APAC? |
California |
?
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/07/2020 at 6:48pm
apac wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
Jack50 wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
I understand, I am young and probably stupid. I will focus on client acquisition but my question was if focusing on hunting poor performing advisor's clients is a decent idea. I can not sell a pen but I sure as hell can rip apart a portfolio and give them better options. |
APAC? |
California |
? |
Asian Pacific? Wtf is APAC im new here
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Posted By: missionshooter
Date Posted: Aug/07/2020 at 6:50pm
Aol, will your chick spend 10k to get you trained in the program??
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/07/2020 at 6:54pm
missionshooter wrote:
Aol, will your chick spend 10k to get you trained in the program?? |
Mm probably not she bitched about me asking for a good chair. Applied for various FADPs thou
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Posted By: Hacksaw
Date Posted: Aug/08/2020 at 9:33am
Aolmos wrote:
missionshooter wrote:
Aol, will your chick spend 10k to get you trained in the program?? |
Mm probably not she bitched about me asking for a good chair. Applied for various FADPs thou |
A good chair won’t help you bring in business. Good training will.
If you asked for a chair, she might have given up on you already - worried about your priorities. And why leave? You should want to be successful where you are. Going from RJFS to an employee channel will have you out of the business in about a year. And then you will have had your clients with two companies within two years and they will doubt you. Make it work where you are.
Talk to her about the AMP program. If she balks, make a deal - you bring in another $X million and she enrolls you in the program.
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Posted By: Aolmos
Date Posted: Aug/10/2020 at 12:50pm
Hacksaw wrote:
Aolmos wrote:
missionshooter wrote:
Aol, will your chick spend 10k to get you trained in the program?? |
Mm probably not she bitched about me asking for a good chair. Applied for various FADPs thou |
A good chair won’t help you bring in business. Good training will.
If you asked for a chair, she might have given up on you already - worried about your priorities. And why leave? You should want to be successful where you are. Going from RJFS to an employee channel will have you out of the business in about a year. And then you will have had your clients with two companies within two years and they will doubt you. Make it work where you are.
Talk to her about the AMP program. If she balks, make a deal - you bring in another $X million and she enrolls you in the program. |
You should've seen the shit I was sitting on. I am a skinny dude so my butt bones were on the steel plate. Alright good to know not to do that. I have resigned my apartment lease for another year so I am locked here until then. I will ask about the training as it has come up before.
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Posted By: luvindy
Date Posted: Aug/17/2020 at 12:09am
If this chick is a cougar, please introduce me to her at the next national conference.
TIA
------------- 8/31/12,Sportsfreak: "If Barak wins this election, or appears to be clearly winning, we are all fucked. Market will tank big time." Dow 13,090 S&P 1406 5/23/13 UC:Dow 20k before 20% crrectn Dow 15,
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