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Ron 14 View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 6:51pm
Many of you have probably seen this coming for months now, but I have a feeling that I don't stand a chance in this business long term for one reason. I HATE WRESTLING WITH IDIOTS!!
 
I had two second appointments today and they were fucking disasters. Halfway through I just wanted to tell the people, "You have no chance at financial security, I can't help you, we are done here."  I didn't because they both had 100k+ and obviously hitting numbers is part of the game.
 
Lets save the maybe you suck at this or you should have done this or any of the other commentary I am sure to hear. I am asking, what do I do now ? Frankly I am miserable and I just can't stand most of these people I deal with. I have a trading background and 4 years as a garbage FA. Where should I go or how do I salvage this career ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 6:56pm
Why a  second appointment?  What happened at the first appointment?
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Ron 14 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron 14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 6:58pm
One was because I wasn't appointed at an insurance carrier for a wealth transfer and the other was to put together a full plan after first appointment when they brought in all of their statements.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:00pm
So the first should be ok.  Yes? No?  On the second, did you get a commitment from them on the first appointment to do business if you came up with a plan that would meet their goals?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SometimesNowhere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:10pm
I'm by no means a veteran of this business, so take this for what it's worth, but I happen to have some of the same frustrations as you. Some of it is unavoidable. Until you have more tenure you have to put up with dipshits (so do I).

However, I stopped chasing morons like that. It has to be a discipline, but you have to realize that chasing monkey's like that will destroy your career. Find the low hanging fruit, the people that want and accept advice. Don't chase anyone else. If you get the others in and you can get them to do business with you, do it.

For people that need $12k a year from their $80k retirement account, do the best you can. Get them as far as you can, give them the most ethical, honest service you can, and keep looking for good clients.

For me I take a lot of solace in the fact that every decent account I get I can fire a shitty one.
I sort of give a fuck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moraen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:17pm
Ron's problem (and mine) is that he hates clients.

Ron, my guess is, you are a phenomenal advisor.  I think you have to keep doing what you are doing.  Put your head down and grin and bear the fagtard clients.  Eventually it will pay off.

I feel for you man.  I don't know what else to say. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maksim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:22pm

If you hate dealing with clients... then perhaps this is not the best career choice.



Former Amp P1 & UBS, Now RIA and couldn't be happier.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote snaphook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:30pm
Who cares if they reach financial security or not? It shouldn't be your problem or worry.  Most people today will work until they die because they cant save for shit.  Who cares?  fuck em.  My job is to invest what money they DO have and give them advice on how to make things better.  If they listen, great.  If all I do is invest their 100k and thats it, great.   Invest their money and go find another client. 
However, if you're frustrated because people won't invest with you, you're going broke, and you hate prospecting; by all means look for a new career. 
But like Moraen said, you're prob a great advisor; just keep going and keep building.  If you don't like certain clients; shoot em an email 4 times a year and meet with them only if they insist or have more money to move.  Spend time with those you enjoy and take their financial security seriously.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:36pm
Ron,
 
Have you tried getting on with a wirehouse or RIA where you can act as an investment manager or portfolio manager? Have you looked into getting your CFA?
 
The reason I say this is because there are two sides of our profession. The financial planning side and the asset management side. If you go on the asset management side you deal with clients very little. If you get on with a team (or have enough AUM after a while to run it on your own) you can work on the discretionary trading platform so that you can get on with the asset management.
 
If you get a system down (i.e. Faber, Herzfeld/Drach, Dorsey Wright or whatever) then it's pure discretionary and you won't have to deal with the clients on a day to day basis.
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Ron 14 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron 14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by Primo Primo wrote:

So the first should be ok.  Yes? No?  On the second, did you get a commitment from them on the first appointment to do business if you came up with a plan that would meet their goals?
 
First dude actually came in this morning and just didn't want to do it. Guy is 80 years old (I broke my own rule of not doing business with those over 75 that I learned from a bad experience with Jones) has 300k in a savings account, can't earn interest because it would but him over the phaseout for Illinois prescription coverage, so we were going to put 80k in Liberty Estate Maximizer to give his beneficiaries a return on money that is theirs anyways.
 
Second couple had 2 IRA's totalling 130k invested 100% in Allianz Cap App C Share and they are 60 years old with an advisor who just moved to Arizona!!!!!! Guy also had 60k in current 401k in the stable value fund. Home is paid off, but they will be living off SS at age 75+.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron 14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by LSUAlum LSUAlum wrote:

Ron,
 
Have you tried getting on with a wirehouse or RIA where you can act as an investment manager or portfolio manager? Have you looked into getting your CFA?
 
The reason I say this is because there are two sides of our profession. The financial planning side and the asset management side. If you go on the asset management side you deal with clients very little. If you get on with a team (or have enough AUM after a while to run it on your own) you can work on the discretionary trading platform so that you can get on with the asset management.
 
If you get a system down (i.e. Faber, Herzfeld/Drach, Dorsey Wright or whatever) then it's pure discretionary and you won't have to deal with the clients on a day to day basis.
 
The CFA has definitely been on my mind recently because that may be more up my alley. I don't know where to start at looking for a job in that area while studying for the CFA.
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Ron 14 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron 14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by Maksim Maksim wrote:

If you hate dealing with clients... then perhaps this is not the best career choice.



 
Its comments like this that make me snap on this site. Does anyone else see where I am coming from? I already said this! Its the entire point of this thread!
 
Deep breath Ron, Deep breath (The voice of Primo whispering from my shoulder)


Edited by Ron 14 - Jul/30/2010 at 7:51pm
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Moraen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moraen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:57pm
Ok.  First off, I have no doubt you are smart enough to do the CFA.  Likely smarter than me.  I will give you a little fair warning though:  That shit was hard.  If I find out in August that I didn't pass level III (again!) I don't know what I'll do.

Second, with your background and experience, you will only need to study a couple of hours a night (I know I just said it was hard - just wanted to have that caveat). 

Third, you can study while working at a bank.  Could you possibly find a salaried advisor job, or a trading job (I would think given where you live that would be possible)?

And fourth.  Do your heart a favor:  Take the good stuff from the site, and ignore the shit that would piss you off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

Originally posted by LSUAlum LSUAlum wrote:

Ron,
 
Have you tried getting on with a wirehouse or RIA where you can act as an investment manager or portfolio manager? Have you looked into getting your CFA?
 
The reason I say this is because there are two sides of our profession. The financial planning side and the asset management side. If you go on the asset management side you deal with clients very little. If you get on with a team (or have enough AUM after a while to run it on your own) you can work on the discretionary trading platform so that you can get on with the asset management.
 
If you get a system down (i.e. Faber, Herzfeld/Drach, Dorsey Wright or whatever) then it's pure discretionary and you won't have to deal with the clients on a day to day basis.
 
The CFA has definitely been on my mind recently because that may be more up my alley. I don't know where to start at looking for a job in that area while studying for the CFA.
Don't get another job. Just keep the one you have. Trust me, when you have a plan in place (i.e. take 2.5 years to get CFA ---you can take the first exam in December and then take LVL 2 in June, LVL 3 the following june) the day to day grind won't bother you as much. It's the 'I feel trapped' part that makes going to work every day suck if you're in that frame of mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

Originally posted by Primo Primo wrote:

So the first should be ok.  Yes? No?  On the second, did you get a commitment from them on the first appointment to do business if you came up with a plan that would meet their goals?
 
First dude actually came in this morning and just didn't want to do it. Guy is 80 years old (I broke my own rule of not doing business with those over 75 that I learned from a bad experience with Jones) has 300k in a savings account, can't earn interest because it would but him over the phaseout for Illinois prescription coverage, so we were going to put 80k in Liberty Estate Maximizer to give his beneficiaries a return on money that is theirs anyways.
 
Second couple had 2 IRA's totalling 130k invested 100% in Allianz Cap App C Share and they are 60 years old with an advisor who just moved to Arizona!!!!!! Guy also had 60k in current 401k in the stable value fund. Home is paid off, but they will be living off SS at age 75+.
 
 
What I have found in my career is that the frustrating fuckers are the one's I didn't properly qualify first.  Find out what they want a,b,c and ask if I show you something that gives you a,b,c what will you do?  Make them answer.  Write a check, set an appt.  Anything else, tell them to call you when they are ready and move on.  My 2 cents.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maksim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

Originally posted by Maksim Maksim wrote:

If you hate dealing with clients... then perhaps this is not the best career choice.



 
Its comments like this that make me snap on this site. Does anyone else see where I am coming from? I already said this! Its the entire point of this thread!
 
Deep breath Ron, Deep breath (The voice of Primo whispering from my shoulder)


Ron, chill bud. =) Wink

You already know everything you need to do.   Why did you post?  to get a pitty party?  If so... boo hoo.  

85% of the people dont give a shit about your problems, the other 15% are glad you have them.


I feel this site is a place to get good information, if you are not looking for it, then dont ask.

Fact is, this job REVOLVES ENTIRELY around clients whom provide your INCOME.


If you do not like it, do something about it.  Either go work for someone, but if you do not like dealing with clients, reconsider a retail enviroment.  


You said it yourself, you have a trading background, and then FA role.  and you dont like it.  It is not for everyone.

Former Amp P1 & UBS, Now RIA and couldn't be happier.



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Ron 14 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron 14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:10pm

Mo - Im not to confident in my CFA success because I didn't study any of that shit in college. I was already trading and making good cash while going to school at night so I was taking these easiest business/finance classes possible.

LSU- you are probably right. I can survive doing what I am doing and if it goes well fine, if not I can abort when I complete CFA in 2029. LOL

Primo-thats a good idea. I guess I don't do that consistently because I am operating out of desperation and I try to be Mr Friendly to build trust.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maksim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

Mo - Im not to confident in my CFA success because I didn't study any of that shit in college. I was already trading and making good cash while going to school at night so I was taking these easiest business/finance classes possible.

LSU- you are probably right. I can survive doing what I am doing and if it goes well fine, if not I can abort when I complete CFA in 2029. LOL

Primo-thats a good idea. I guess I don't do that consistently because I am operating out of desperation and I try to be Mr Friendly to build trust.


My buddy was in the same position.  Was an FA for Ameriprise, then went to Chase as a bank advisor.  Couldnt deal with that stuff, went to work for ML as an internal and now clearing 85k with bonus.

Former Amp P1 & UBS, Now RIA and couldn't be happier.



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Ron 14 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron 14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:18pm
If 85k is the end game I have no interest. Absolutely none.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maksim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:24pm

That is his starting pay.  His immediate boss is making close to 200.


But hey, you dont have to deal with clients.


Honestly though, why dont you just be more selective with whom you work with?  Or does your bank not allow it?

Former Amp P1 & UBS, Now RIA and couldn't be happier.



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