Advisorheads Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Introductions > Greenhorn Introductions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Am I in the right place?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Am I in the right place?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>
Author
Message
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 1:38pm
I think you have to let them pay the trading costs.  It just seems more ethical.
Back to Top
Redshark View Drop Down
Greenhorns
Greenhorns
Avatar

Joined: Sep/03/2014
Status: Offline
Points: 90
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redshark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 2:04pm
What do trading cost look like at clearing firms. My last experience before my current job, was about half a cent a share. I have no idea what that world looks like now. Anyone want to shed some light on this for me?

I can see both sides of the ethical debate. I think people will be on which ever side of that debate economical suits them.
Back to Top
Wet_Blanket View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Team America (not iMo)

Joined: Mar/10/2010
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 46820
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wet_Blanket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 2:05pm
$9.99 per trade if you are dealing with retail investors at a discount brokerage.
The true 🤡 was the Biden voter all along.
Back to Top
Mike Damone View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: Mar/15/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 6544
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Damone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 3:45pm
I clear through Pershing who charges $20 for stocks & etfs.  I suspect Pershing only charges $10 but my broker dealer marks it up and pockets the other $10.
Back to Top
Macduff View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: Oct/27/2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1141
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Macduff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 4:10pm
Schwab charged us $7.95 per trade for clients with paperless billing and $19.95 for those who wanted a paper confirmation.
“I was born for the storm, and a calm does not suit me.”

― Andrew Jackson
Back to Top
Iamlegend View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: Mar/09/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 23770
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iamlegend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by Moraen Moraen wrote:

I think you have to let them pay the trading costs.  It just seems more ethical.


I find this funny actually.
Back to Top
Chief View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: Mar/12/2010
Status: Online
Points: 16643
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chief Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 4:25pm
IB charges $0.005/share
"You like winning don't you?" "Saves you from having to say the word please."

Good point Chief. Iceco1d 10/30/12
Back to Top
RipRock View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: Oct/29/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1807
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RipRock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by Mike Damone Mike Damone wrote:

I clear through Pershing who charges $20 for stocks & etfs.  I suspect Pershing only charges $10 but my broker dealer marks it up and pockets the other $10.

Which is why I am out. F Pershing.
Back to Top
Redshark View Drop Down
Greenhorns
Greenhorns
Avatar

Joined: Sep/03/2014
Status: Offline
Points: 90
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redshark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by Chief Chief wrote:

IB charges $0.005/share


I have actually cleared through them in the past. Not in a licensed capacity. Really liked their platform from a purely investment stand point. How do they stack up otherwise?
Back to Top
Wet_Blanket View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Team America (not iMo)

Joined: Mar/10/2010
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 46820
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wet_Blanket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by Redshark Redshark wrote:

Originally posted by Chief Chief wrote:

IB charges $0.005/share


I have actually cleared through them in the past. Not in a licensed capacity. Really liked their platform from a purely investment stand point. How do they stack up otherwise?
Correct me if I am wrong Chief, but they have no AUM minimum?

Chief will mention something about them having a prop desk.
The true 🤡 was the Biden voter all along.
Back to Top
Redshark View Drop Down
Greenhorns
Greenhorns
Avatar

Joined: Sep/03/2014
Status: Offline
Points: 90
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redshark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 4:51pm
They also have an up front down payment of $10k I believe. I really like a lot of things about them, but I am not sure it's a best fit in the RIA world. Could be completely wrong.
Back to Top
Sportsfreak View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Wise Old Perv and CTO of AH

Joined: Mar/09/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 25709
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sportsfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 8:51pm
Redshark think of it this way.
If a client goes to TDAmeritrade, or Fidelity, they are going to pay say, 9.99 a trade. And they can trade to their hearts content. On their own.
If they come to you, they are still paying 9.99 a trade Thats for the trade. Then they pay 1% or whatever, of assets to you. Thats for advice you fucking numnut. So they dont blow themselves up. You do think you're advice is worth 1%, don't you? Confused

Welcome to AH. And no, I'm not trying to be combative. Big smile
If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, then technically, you only had one piece
Back to Top
Redshark View Drop Down
Greenhorns
Greenhorns
Avatar

Joined: Sep/03/2014
Status: Offline
Points: 90
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redshark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 9:04pm
Listen here Fuckowitz. If you want to whore yourself out for 1% that's your problem. If you want to act like some kind of fucking saint for charging 1% on top of a shitty 20 dollar commission where your clearing firm front runs your client orders, then be my fucking guest. But do yourself a favor, and don't act like you are doing it because it's ethical, or easier, or some other dumb fucking reason. Clients want simple. Don't ever forget that. If I want some used car salesman to go in raw on you for 1% and a $20 tip every time he gives you a reach around, that's your business.

Thanks for the welcome party.
Back to Top
Sportsfreak View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Wise Old Perv and CTO of AH

Joined: Mar/09/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 25709
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sportsfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 9:09pm
WOW!!!
It looks like your skin is so not thick enough that its made out of fucking Charmin. Was it the numnuts comment that made you go all Helado on me? Because that, and every other sarcastic part of my post was meant to be funny, not to rip you. I was actually trying to give you an explanation of why the ticket charges made sense, to help you. '

So go fuck yourself, cunt. I've been around here too long to take sandy vaginas like you seriously. 

Edit: Oh, and go take a course on how to interpret emoticons, Edith Big smile


Edited by Sportsfreak - Sep/04/2014 at 9:10pm
If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, then technically, you only had one piece
Back to Top
Redshark View Drop Down
Greenhorns
Greenhorns
Avatar

Joined: Sep/03/2014
Status: Offline
Points: 90
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redshark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 9:14pm
So what was your favorite part, and why was it the used car salesman bit?
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by Redshark Redshark wrote:

Listen here Fuckowitz. If you want to whore yourself out for 1% that's your problem. If you want to act like some kind of fucking saint for charging 1% on top of a shitty 20 dollar commission where your clearing firm front runs your client orders, then be my fucking guest. But do yourself a favor, and don't act like you are doing it because it's ethical, or easier, or some other dumb fucking reason. Clients want simple. Don't ever forget that. If I want some used car salesman to go in raw on you for 1% and a $20 tip every time he gives you a reach around, that's your business.

Thanks for the welcome party.

Okay fuckstick, it's apparent to me that you need to learn the rules.

First, of the forum.  You are new here.  You haven't earned the right to be an asshole yet.  So you either get your shit together and respect your elders (and in this case, VERY elder), or you hop back onto what shitwagon you rolled in on, and good luck getting help with your situation somewhere else on the internet.  

Second, on your question.  You got the right advice, but failed to listen because you are a twat.  As an RIA, you will be a fiduciary when working with clients.  You will likely not have custody of your client funds, so you will have to pick a firm to handle that for you.  The main players are the discount brokers, plus Pershing.  They don't do this for free.  They make their money by doing trades.  $10 a trade.  You get the point.  They also do this through revenue sharing with fund and ETF companies through their "No Transaction Fee" or NTF programs.  Essentially, the fund/ETF company agrees to kick some revenue back to the custodian (Fidelity, Pershing, whoever) in exchange for the custodian not charging fees for clients (or advisors) to trade/hold those funds there.  Usually this means the custodian gets a 12b-1 fee of 25 bps, but that's not always the case (obviously with ETF providers that isn't the case). 

The custodians will also negotiate an asset based fee with RIAs for unlimited trading (i.e. every account can trade free on an unlimited basis, in exchange for say, 20 basis points annually of the AUM they custody).  20 basis points is .20% in case you're slow (which you clearly are).  

So if you are going to do the AUM fee arrangement, it's easy.  No conflicts of interest.  Trade, don't trade.  Stocks, bonds, ETFs, mutual funds, whatever.  You know you're giving Fidelity 20 bps a year no matter what, so you build that into your fee structure.  Say you charge 1.20%, Fidelity bills .2% for themselves, and sends you the other 1.00%.  

Now, what if you are doing the "ticket charge" thing?  SOMEONE has to pay $10 for every trade.  So as an RIA you can absorb it, or you can just have it bill to your clients separately.  So you may say "well duh, I'll charge 1.2% an absorb these charges for my clients, and I should still net 1.0%"  

Sounds great, until you look at the regulatory perspective.  What happens when your accounts are down 20% and a client finds out that you pay these trading costs on their behalf?  What if they decide to allege that you didn't move their money around because it would cost YOU money?  

That is bad.  That leaves you open to liability, even if it's not true.  So what do you do?  YOU aren't charging for trades (you aren't allowed after all, you're not a broker, you're just an advisor).  YOU are charging for your ADVICE, and FIDELITY is charging for TRADES.  So instead of billing 1.20% and covering the Fidelity trading costs out of your pocket, you charge say, 1.00% for your ADVICE and the client pays fidelity for their TRANSACTION costs separately.  

Make sense?  I don't care if it does or not, I'm just telling you how it is.  If you're smart, you'll STFU and listen to me because I'm a fucking genius.  But you aren't, so you'll probably ignore this sage advice and focus on the fact that I called you a shitstick (or fuckstick, whatever).  

But that would be unwise.  Because if financial advisors were cartoons, I'm G.I. Joe or maybe even Transformers, and at this point, you are My Little Pony.  

So get your shit together, learn your place, and MAYBE, just MAYBE we'll let you stay here and get an education about this industry that doesn't exist anywhere else in the industry, including the training programs at the biggest firms on Wall Street.

You're welcome.  



Edited by helado - Sep/04/2014 at 10:28pm
Back to Top
Sportsfreak View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Wise Old Perv and CTO of AH

Joined: Mar/09/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 25709
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sportsfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 10:23pm
I'm thinking it may already be too late for him to get his shit together. He's already alienated me with his dumbass Fuckowitz remark. , so he won't get any more advice from me. And that's a big deal around here, I'm not sure, I need to think it over.

Fuckstick. I like that.
If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, then technically, you only had one piece
Back to Top
B24 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: Mar/09/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 28776
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 10:24pm
Oh, I'm fucking dying over here. LOL

Moral of the story - don't piss off SportsFreakowitz! LOL


Edited by B24 - Sep/04/2014 at 10:26pm
Back to Top
Nathan Explosion View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Trump Deep Throater

Joined: Mar/08/2011
Status: Online
Points: 43175
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nathan Explosion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 10:29pm
Classic....I think the greenhorn intro page is the gauntlet.....this is like watching Deadliest Catch....
Back to Top
Redshark View Drop Down
Greenhorns
Greenhorns
Avatar

Joined: Sep/03/2014
Status: Offline
Points: 90
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redshark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 10:40pm
I love that you have to stir the pot to get you guys talking shop.

Explain this to me, and I know everyone is different and this is a generalization, when you are meeting with a potential customer, do you not explicitly tell them upfront here are the very rules on how your account will be traded. Here are the rules, and here is the frequency. Here are the conditions that we trade your account to meet your objective. To me, clarifying that upfront with the client, makes the double edged sword that you are describing less of a problem, no?

What am I missing? What would you prefer to pay for as a client, knowing what you know? 1% plus commish or 1.2 all in? Seems like a no brainer to me.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.117 seconds.