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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 1:38pm |
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I think you have to let them pay the trading costs. It just seems more ethical.
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Redshark
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Joined: Sep/03/2014 Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 2:04pm |
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What do trading cost look like at clearing firms. My last experience before my current job, was about half a cent a share. I have no idea what that world looks like now. Anyone want to shed some light on this for me?
I can see both sides of the ethical debate. I think people will be on which ever side of that debate economical suits them. |
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Wet_Blanket
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 2:05pm |
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$9.99 per trade if you are dealing with retail investors at a discount brokerage.
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The true 🤡 was the Biden voter all along.
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Mike Damone
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 3:45pm |
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I clear through Pershing who charges $20 for stocks & etfs. I suspect Pershing only charges $10 but my broker dealer marks it up and pockets the other $10.
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Macduff
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Joined: Oct/27/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1141 |
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 4:10pm |
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Schwab charged us $7.95 per trade for clients with paperless billing and $19.95 for those who wanted a paper confirmation.
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“I was born for the storm, and a calm does not suit me.”
― Andrew Jackson |
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Iamlegend
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 4:12pm |
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I find this funny actually. |
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Chief
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 4:25pm |
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IB charges $0.005/share
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"You like winning don't you?" "Saves you from having to say the word please."
Good point Chief. Iceco1d 10/30/12 |
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RipRock
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 4:39pm |
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Which is why I am out. F Pershing.
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Redshark
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 4:40pm |
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I have actually cleared through them in the past. Not in a licensed capacity. Really liked their platform from a purely investment stand point. How do they stack up otherwise? |
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Wet_Blanket
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 4:47pm |
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Chief will mention something about them having a prop desk.
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The true 🤡 was the Biden voter all along.
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Redshark
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 4:51pm |
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They also have an up front down payment of $10k I believe. I really like a lot of things about them, but I am not sure it's a best fit in the RIA world. Could be completely wrong.
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Sportsfreak
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Wise Old Perv and CTO of AH Joined: Mar/09/2010 Status: Offline Points: 25709 |
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 8:51pm |
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Redshark think of it this way.
If a client goes to TDAmeritrade, or Fidelity, they are going to pay say, 9.99 a trade. And they can trade to their hearts content. On their own. If they come to you, they are still paying 9.99 a trade Thats for the trade. Then they pay 1% or whatever, of assets to you. Thats for advice you fucking numnut. So they dont blow themselves up. You do think you're advice is worth 1%, don't you? ![]() Welcome to AH. And no, I'm not trying to be combative.
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If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, then technically, you only had one piece
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Redshark
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 9:04pm |
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Listen here Fuckowitz. If you want to whore yourself out for 1% that's your problem. If you want to act like some kind of fucking saint for charging 1% on top of a shitty 20 dollar commission where your clearing firm front runs your client orders, then be my fucking guest. But do yourself a favor, and don't act like you are doing it because it's ethical, or easier, or some other dumb fucking reason. Clients want simple. Don't ever forget that. If I want some used car salesman to go in raw on you for 1% and a $20 tip every time he gives you a reach around, that's your business.
Thanks for the welcome party. |
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Sportsfreak
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 9:09pm |
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WOW!!!
It looks like your skin is so not thick enough that its made out of fucking Charmin. Was it the numnuts comment that made you go all Helado on me? Because that, and every other sarcastic part of my post was meant to be funny, not to rip you. I was actually trying to give you an explanation of why the ticket charges made sense, to help you. ' So go fuck yourself, cunt. I've been around here too long to take sandy vaginas like you seriously. Edit: Oh, and go take a course on how to interpret emoticons, Edith
![]() Edited by Sportsfreak - Sep/04/2014 at 9:10pm |
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If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, then technically, you only had one piece
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Redshark
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 9:14pm |
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So what was your favorite part, and why was it the used car salesman bit?
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 10:17pm |
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Okay fuckstick, it's apparent to me that you need to learn the rules. First, of the forum. You are new here. You haven't earned the right to be an asshole yet. So you either get your shit together and respect your elders (and in this case, VERY elder), or you hop back onto what shitwagon you rolled in on, and good luck getting help with your situation somewhere else on the internet. Second, on your question. You got the right advice, but failed to listen because you are a twat. As an RIA, you will be a fiduciary when working with clients. You will likely not have custody of your client funds, so you will have to pick a firm to handle that for you. The main players are the discount brokers, plus Pershing. They don't do this for free. They make their money by doing trades. $10 a trade. You get the point. They also do this through revenue sharing with fund and ETF companies through their "No Transaction Fee" or NTF programs. Essentially, the fund/ETF company agrees to kick some revenue back to the custodian (Fidelity, Pershing, whoever) in exchange for the custodian not charging fees for clients (or advisors) to trade/hold those funds there. Usually this means the custodian gets a 12b-1 fee of 25 bps, but that's not always the case (obviously with ETF providers that isn't the case). The custodians will also negotiate an asset based fee with RIAs for unlimited trading (i.e. every account can trade free on an unlimited basis, in exchange for say, 20 basis points annually of the AUM they custody). 20 basis points is .20% in case you're slow (which you clearly are). So if you are going to do the AUM fee arrangement, it's easy. No conflicts of interest. Trade, don't trade. Stocks, bonds, ETFs, mutual funds, whatever. You know you're giving Fidelity 20 bps a year no matter what, so you build that into your fee structure. Say you charge 1.20%, Fidelity bills .2% for themselves, and sends you the other 1.00%. Now, what if you are doing the "ticket charge" thing? SOMEONE has to pay $10 for every trade. So as an RIA you can absorb it, or you can just have it bill to your clients separately. So you may say "well duh, I'll charge 1.2% an absorb these charges for my clients, and I should still net 1.0%" Sounds great, until you look at the regulatory perspective. What happens when your accounts are down 20% and a client finds out that you pay these trading costs on their behalf? What if they decide to allege that you didn't move their money around because it would cost YOU money? That is bad. That leaves you open to liability, even if it's not true. So what do you do? YOU aren't charging for trades (you aren't allowed after all, you're not a broker, you're just an advisor). YOU are charging for your ADVICE, and FIDELITY is charging for TRADES. So instead of billing 1.20% and covering the Fidelity trading costs out of your pocket, you charge say, 1.00% for your ADVICE and the client pays fidelity for their TRANSACTION costs separately. Make sense? I don't care if it does or not, I'm just telling you how it is. If you're smart, you'll STFU and listen to me because I'm a fucking genius. But you aren't, so you'll probably ignore this sage advice and focus on the fact that I called you a shitstick (or fuckstick, whatever). But that would be unwise. Because if financial advisors were cartoons, I'm G.I. Joe or maybe even Transformers, and at this point, you are My Little Pony. So get your shit together, learn your place, and MAYBE, just MAYBE we'll let you stay here and get an education about this industry that doesn't exist anywhere else in the industry, including the training programs at the biggest firms on Wall Street. You're welcome. Edited by helado - Sep/04/2014 at 10:28pm |
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Sportsfreak
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 10:23pm |
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I'm thinking it may already be too late for him to get his shit together. He's already alienated me with his dumbass Fuckowitz remark. , so he won't get any more advice from me. And that's a big deal around here, I'm not sure, I need to think it over.
Fuckstick. I like that.
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If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, then technically, you only had one piece
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B24
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 10:24pm |
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Oh, I'm fucking dying over here.
Moral of the story - don't piss off SportsFreakowitz! ![]() Edited by B24 - Sep/04/2014 at 10:26pm |
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Nathan Explosion
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 10:29pm |
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Classic....I think the greenhorn intro page is the gauntlet.....this is like watching Deadliest Catch....
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Redshark
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Posted: Sep/04/2014 at 10:40pm |
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I love that you have to stir the pot to get you guys talking shop.
Explain this to me, and I know everyone is different and this is a generalization, when you are meeting with a potential customer, do you not explicitly tell them upfront here are the very rules on how your account will be traded. Here are the rules, and here is the frequency. Here are the conditions that we trade your account to meet your objective. To me, clarifying that upfront with the client, makes the double edged sword that you are describing less of a problem, no? What am I missing? What would you prefer to pay for as a client, knowing what you know? 1% plus commish or 1.2 all in? Seems like a no brainer to me. |
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