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wiredup
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Joined: Mar/11/2010 Status: Offline Points: 22776 |
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 12:31am |
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[QUOTE=helado] Example 1: You hold Vanguard 500 Admiral shares for your clients large cap position. It has an ER of .05%. Fidelity decides to go all "loss leader" on Vanguard and start charging .02% for it's SPARTAN S&P 500 index fund. You have a $3 million client that 3 years down the road alleges that you continued to hold the Vanguard fund instead of trading to the Fidelity fund that would've saved him money, all so you wouldn't have to pay the ticket charges for the trade. How do you defend that? Based on not wanting to have the client pay a very large LTCG on the money I invested for him on March 9th, 2009.... Because I'm a fucking genius! I figured $900 in ER's outweighed the 15% on $2mm in gains. Example 2: You hold a 12 fund portfolio of ETFs for your clients in a 50/50 allocation. The market tanks 2 years from now and your clients are down anywhere from 10 - 25%. One of your clients goes to see an attorney because he is pissed that he lost money (yes, this happens ALL the time). That attorney sees that you pay these costs for you clients, and decide to allege that you STUBBORNLY held those same ETFs, even though the market was tanking, and you should've known better and "gotten your client off the tracks" before it bottomed out. How do you defend that? Because we are following a long term strategy based on their ISP that is outlined here, here and here. Said client is in the top tax bracket and on numerous occasions documented here, here and here didn't want to sell or rebalance on numerous occasions because the market was up and didn't want to pay taxes on the gains just yet. Example 3: You hold PIMCO Total Return fund for your clients. The fund has been lagging the benchmark for about a year now. You continue to hold it because Bill Gross is the bond king, active management usually wins with fixed income, and you aren't ready to give the fund the boot quite yet. However, 2 more years go by, and Bill Gross continues to lag the benchmark by 1% annually. You now have lots of clients that have lagged a simple bond index by 1% a year for 3 years, AND the MAJORITY of PIMCO Total Return's peer funds have not only beaten it, but beaten the index as well. Your client then goes to an attorney, and they allege that you didn't want to dump the fund even though it lagged, and lagged, and lagged because YOU didn't want to eat the transaction costs. How fucking dare you disrespect PTTAX! It's the backbone of this fucking country and is a symbol for the very blanket of freedom that you get to sleep under at night. I don't remember the douchebags name who called me a soulless monster for recommending a client sell it and rebalance it must, but I'm sure he must be dating or blowing the fund manager, Bruce Jenner's doppelgänger. These 3 scenarios all get worse if that attorney puts an ad in your local newspaper asking your clients to contact him/her regarding a lawsuit about you taking advantage of them for your own paycheck. In every scenario above, you have no defense. However, if the CLIENT pays the cost of the transaction, you have absolutely ZERO conflict of interest when it comes to what fund to hold. You can say "buying this fund over that fund, or this ETF over that fund, etc. doesn't affect me WHATSOEVER, so I am only doing what I think is best for you." THIS IS OUR INDUSTRY. Every other fucking cock sucking thing you do has to be document, document, document and cover your fucking ass so some jerkoff ambulance chasing attorney can't link up with some whiny ass client that thinks his advisor should pay for his losses because the S&P 500 shit the bed 30%. It is, what it is. Edited by wiredup - Sep/05/2014 at 12:33am |
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 12:41am |
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What if they are qualified accounts and you can't use capital gains taxes as a justification?
Wait, even if you CAN use it as a justification, can you PROVE that your claim has anymore merit than the clients claim that you held off on the trades because you didn't want to pay the ticket charges? Yes, I know my Vanguard to Fidelity example is both unlikely to happen and kind of picky. In a more likely example, say a management team leaves BlackRock and goes to First Eagle to manage a similar fund. Let's say you continue to hold the BlackRock Fund for whatever reason. Then let's say the BlackRock fund underperforms by 5% vs. the First Eagle fund. Maybe that year FE is up 2% and BR is down 3%. Let's say it's a $1MM position. Your client alleges that you should've followed the management team to First Eagle, and you didn't because you wanted to save the ticket charge money, so you should cover the difference in performance. Granted, these are simplified examples. But you are creating a conflict of interest that you can't easily explain or justify beyond reasonable doubt. Seems silly for $15 a trade, but if you have 500 accounts and you pay for both buys and sells, you're looking at a $7,500 kick in the junk to make that change. It would have legs in an arbitration.
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RIArules
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Trump Ball-Licker Joined: Mar/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 49907 |
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 1:12am |
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Arbitration....
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“We are all Antifa” - Hacksaw 9/12/2025
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Sportsfreak
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Wise Old Perv and CTO of AH Joined: Mar/09/2010 Status: Offline Points: 25709 |
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 7:52am |
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How do you handle block trades when you have multiple clients all with different percentages of the equity model and the bond model. That's something I am running into , my platform is Folio Dynamics |
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If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, then technically, you only had one piece
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Redshark
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Joined: Sep/03/2014 Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 8:26am |
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Currently we use a program called Charles River Anywhere. Not sure what they charge, because it's just part of our discretionary trading platform. It allows you to create multiple strategies. So say I have Equity Strategy 1 with 10 stocks and Bond Strategy 1 with 10 ETFs. The I go in and say my Aggressive Portfolio is Equity 1 with a 85% allocation and Bond 1 with a 15% weighting. Then you add other models and assign models to accounts. When you want to make changes to a strategy for example, I go into Equity Strategy 1 and remove JNJ and add MSFT. After the changes are done, I check off all the accounts I want to trade, preview the trades and send them to trading. It's literally about 15 minutes of work to trade 100 accounts across 10 different strategies. That's the easiest set up I have used.
The worst is well you just have to calculate how many shares you want to buy or sell for you clients cumulatively and then you have to put that order in as a block trade, and then got back into an accounting system and say client a bought 2 shares, client b bought 5, etc. Sounds like a nightmare to me. |
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FEEonly
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Joined: Aug/21/2014 Status: Offline Points: 108 |
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 8:39am |
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He aint lyin... |
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You ever take a dump that made you feel like you slept for 12 hours?
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FEEonly
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Joined: Aug/21/2014 Status: Offline Points: 108 |
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 8:49am |
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redshark, im not reading through everything here, but I notice you are questioning rebalancing/trading portfolios. It seems like you may have a manual process as far as entering the trades and calculating shares/dollars. I use TRX to rebalance and trade portfolios. There is still a human component, but it works very well.
I see you got the same warm welcome I got.
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You ever take a dump that made you feel like you slept for 12 hours?
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 9:07am |
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Lol. I missed the part where he called SF a Fuckowitz. Awesome.
Sorry SF, but it was pretty funny. It would be like someone starting a fight with iamlegend. |
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Redshark
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Joined: Sep/03/2014 Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 9:22am |
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Fee, thanks I will look it up.
I haven't meet a person in this industry who doesn't want to have a pissing contest within 30 seconds of meeting someone. Dogs sniff each other's ass. Traders, advisors and the like bring a ruler to a meeting to measure their dicks. It's part of the game we play. |
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 9:23am |
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When you are measuring in feet, why would you need a ruler?
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FEEonly
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Joined: Aug/21/2014 Status: Offline Points: 108 |
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 9:32am |
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Well done... |
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You ever take a dump that made you feel like you slept for 12 hours?
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FEEonly
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 9:35am |
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That's right. It's what you gotta do when you find yourself in a vicious cock fight. |
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You ever take a dump that made you feel like you slept for 12 hours?
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knuk
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Joined: May/20/2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 8254 |
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 9:38am |
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A little Ed Jones coming out there?
Edited by knuk - Sep/05/2014 at 9:38am |
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Wet_Blanket
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Team America (not iMo) Joined: Mar/10/2010 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 46822 |
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 9:40am |
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The true 🤡 was the Biden voter all along.
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FEEonly
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 9:44am |
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At dean witter we measure success...one inch at a time.
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You ever take a dump that made you feel like you slept for 12 hours?
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Redshark
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Joined: Sep/03/2014 Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 9:48am |
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That's my guess too Wet_Blanket. Hopefully there is a comparable vendor in the RIA space, because that capability is valuable. I think they have some performance reporting that my current company strips out of our service. Obviously that would be a nice addition as well.
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 10:07am |
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I actually like both of these new dudes (fee only and red shark). No homo.
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Redshark
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Joined: Sep/03/2014 Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 10:19am |
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I like you guys too. Good times. I like how the guy before me who turned 700 into a million dollars by selling naked options or whatever the fuck he was doing, and wanted to use that as an investment model for people, ran for the hills. So to be honest, he was a pretty easy act to follow.
That guy will be lucky to get sued. Doing that shit for people is how you get murdered. |
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Mike Damone
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Joined: Mar/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 6544 |
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 10:20am |
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I simply say, there's a management fee of 1.40%. Expect to pay $100 a year in trading cost to the custodian.
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Posted: Sep/05/2014 at 10:24am |
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Welcome home Redshark. We've been waiting for you (no homo). |
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