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What now?

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Topic: What now?
Posted By: Ron 14
Subject: What now?
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 6:51pm
Many of you have probably seen this coming for months now, but I have a feeling that I don't stand a chance in this business long term for one reason. I HATE WRESTLING WITH IDIOTS!!
 
I had two second appointments today and they were fucking disasters. Halfway through I just wanted to tell the people, "You have no chance at financial security, I can't help you, we are done here."  I didn't because they both had 100k+ and obviously hitting numbers is part of the game.
 
Lets save the maybe you suck at this or you should have done this or any of the other commentary I am sure to hear. I am asking, what do I do now ? Frankly I am miserable and I just can't stand most of these people I deal with. I have a trading background and 4 years as a garbage FA. Where should I go or how do I salvage this career ?



Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 6:56pm
Why a  second appointment?  What happened at the first appointment?


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 6:58pm
One was because I wasn't appointed at an insurance carrier for a wealth transfer and the other was to put together a full plan after first appointment when they brought in all of their statements.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:00pm
So the first should be ok.  Yes? No?  On the second, did you get a commitment from them on the first appointment to do business if you came up with a plan that would meet their goals?


Posted By: SometimesNowhere
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:10pm
I'm by no means a veteran of this business, so take this for what it's worth, but I happen to have some of the same frustrations as you. Some of it is unavoidable. Until you have more tenure you have to put up with dipshits (so do I).

However, I stopped chasing morons like that. It has to be a discipline, but you have to realize that chasing monkey's like that will destroy your career. Find the low hanging fruit, the people that want and accept advice. Don't chase anyone else. If you get the others in and you can get them to do business with you, do it.

For people that need $12k a year from their $80k retirement account, do the best you can. Get them as far as you can, give them the most ethical, honest service you can, and keep looking for good clients.

For me I take a lot of solace in the fact that every decent account I get I can fire a shitty one.


Posted By: Moraen
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:17pm
Ron's problem (and mine) is that he hates clients.

Ron, my guess is, you are a phenomenal advisor.  I think you have to keep doing what you are doing.  Put your head down and grin and bear the fagtard clients.  Eventually it will pay off.

I feel for you man.  I don't know what else to say. 


Posted By: Maksim
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:22pm

If you hate dealing with clients... then perhaps this is not the best career choice.





-------------
Former Amp P1 & UBS, Now RIA and couldn't be happier.





Posted By: snaphook
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:30pm
Who cares if they reach financial security or not? It shouldn't be your problem or worry.  Most people today will work until they die because they cant save for shit.  Who cares?  fuck em.  My job is to invest what money they DO have and give them advice on how to make things better.  If they listen, great.  If all I do is invest their 100k and thats it, great.   Invest their money and go find another client. 
However, if you're frustrated because people won't invest with you, you're going broke, and you hate prospecting; by all means look for a new career. 
But like Moraen said, you're prob a great advisor; just keep going and keep building.  If you don't like certain clients; shoot em an email 4 times a year and meet with them only if they insist or have more money to move.  Spend time with those you enjoy and take their financial security seriously.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:36pm
Ron,
 
Have you tried getting on with a wirehouse or RIA where you can act as an investment manager or portfolio manager? Have you looked into getting your CFA?
 
The reason I say this is because there are two sides of our profession. The financial planning side and the asset management side. If you go on the asset management side you deal with clients very little. If you get on with a team (or have enough AUM after a while to run it on your own) you can work on the discretionary trading platform so that you can get on with the asset management.
 
If you get a system down (i.e. Faber, Herzfeld/Drach, Dorsey Wright or whatever) then it's pure discretionary and you won't have to deal with the clients on a day to day basis.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by Primo Primo wrote:

So the first should be ok.  Yes? No?  On the second, did you get a commitment from them on the first appointment to do business if you came up with a plan that would meet their goals?
 
First dude actually came in this morning and just didn't want to do it. Guy is 80 years old (I broke my own rule of not doing business with those over 75 that I learned from a bad experience with Jones) has 300k in a savings account, can't earn interest because it would but him over the phaseout for Illinois prescription coverage, so we were going to put 80k in Liberty Estate Maximizer to give his beneficiaries a return on money that is theirs anyways.
 
Second couple had 2 IRA's totalling 130k invested 100% in Allianz Cap App C Share and they are 60 years old with an advisor who just moved to Arizona!!!!!! Guy also had 60k in current 401k in the stable value fund. Home is paid off, but they will be living off SS at age 75+.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by LSUAlum LSUAlum wrote:

Ron,
 
Have you tried getting on with a wirehouse or RIA where you can act as an investment manager or portfolio manager? Have you looked into getting your CFA?
 
The reason I say this is because there are two sides of our profession. The financial planning side and the asset management side. If you go on the asset management side you deal with clients very little. If you get on with a team (or have enough AUM after a while to run it on your own) you can work on the discretionary trading platform so that you can get on with the asset management.
 
If you get a system down (i.e. Faber, Herzfeld/Drach, Dorsey Wright or whatever) then it's pure discretionary and you won't have to deal with the clients on a day to day basis.
 
The CFA has definitely been on my mind recently because that may be more up my alley. I don't know where to start at looking for a job in that area while studying for the CFA.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by Maksim Maksim wrote:

If you hate dealing with clients... then perhaps this is not the best career choice.



 
Its comments like this that make me snap on this site. Does anyone else see where I am coming from? I already said this! Its the entire point of this thread!
 
Deep breath Ron, Deep breath (The voice of Primo whispering from my shoulder)


Posted By: Moraen
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:57pm
Ok.  First off, I have no doubt you are smart enough to do the CFA.  Likely smarter than me.  I will give you a little fair warning though:  That shit was hard.  If I find out in August that I didn't pass level III (again!) I don't know what I'll do.

Second, with your background and experience, you will only need to study a couple of hours a night (I know I just said it was hard - just wanted to have that caveat). 

Third, you can study while working at a bank.  Could you possibly find a salaried advisor job, or a trading job (I would think given where you live that would be possible)?

And fourth.  Do your heart a favor:  Take the good stuff from the site, and ignore the shit that would piss you off.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

Originally posted by LSUAlum LSUAlum wrote:

Ron,
 
Have you tried getting on with a wirehouse or RIA where you can act as an investment manager or portfolio manager? Have you looked into getting your CFA?
 
The reason I say this is because there are two sides of our profession. The financial planning side and the asset management side. If you go on the asset management side you deal with clients very little. If you get on with a team (or have enough AUM after a while to run it on your own) you can work on the discretionary trading platform so that you can get on with the asset management.
 
If you get a system down (i.e. Faber, Herzfeld/Drach, Dorsey Wright or whatever) then it's pure discretionary and you won't have to deal with the clients on a day to day basis.
 
The CFA has definitely been on my mind recently because that may be more up my alley. I don't know where to start at looking for a job in that area while studying for the CFA.
Don't get another job. Just keep the one you have. Trust me, when you have a plan in place (i.e. take 2.5 years to get CFA ---you can take the first exam in December and then take LVL 2 in June, LVL 3 the following june) the day to day grind won't bother you as much. It's the 'I feel trapped' part that makes going to work every day suck if you're in that frame of mind.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

Originally posted by Primo Primo wrote:

So the first should be ok.  Yes? No?  On the second, did you get a commitment from them on the first appointment to do business if you came up with a plan that would meet their goals?
 
First dude actually came in this morning and just didn't want to do it. Guy is 80 years old (I broke my own rule of not doing business with those over 75 that I learned from a bad experience with Jones) has 300k in a savings account, can't earn interest because it would but him over the phaseout for Illinois prescription coverage, so we were going to put 80k in Liberty Estate Maximizer to give his beneficiaries a return on money that is theirs anyways.
 
Second couple had 2 IRA's totalling 130k invested 100% in Allianz Cap App C Share and they are 60 years old with an advisor who just moved to Arizona!!!!!! Guy also had 60k in current 401k in the stable value fund. Home is paid off, but they will be living off SS at age 75+.
 
 
What I have found in my career is that the frustrating fuckers are the one's I didn't properly qualify first.  Find out what they want a,b,c and ask if I show you something that gives you a,b,c what will you do?  Make them answer.  Write a check, set an appt.  Anything else, tell them to call you when they are ready and move on.  My 2 cents.


Posted By: Maksim
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

Originally posted by Maksim Maksim wrote:

If you hate dealing with clients... then perhaps this is not the best career choice.



 
Its comments like this that make me snap on this site. Does anyone else see where I am coming from? I already said this! Its the entire point of this thread!
 
Deep breath Ron, Deep breath (The voice of Primo whispering from my shoulder)


Ron, chill bud. =) Wink

You already know everything you need to do.   Why did you post?  to get a pitty party?  If so... boo hoo.  

85% of the people dont give a shit about your problems, the other 15% are glad you have them.


I feel this site is a place to get good information, if you are not looking for it, then dont ask.

Fact is, this job REVOLVES ENTIRELY around clients whom provide your INCOME.


If you do not like it, do something about it.  Either go work for someone, but if you do not like dealing with clients, reconsider a retail enviroment.  


You said it yourself, you have a trading background, and then FA role.  and you dont like it.  It is not for everyone.



-------------
Former Amp P1 & UBS, Now RIA and couldn't be happier.





Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:10pm

Mo - Im not to confident in my CFA success because I didn't study any of that shit in college. I was already trading and making good cash while going to school at night so I was taking these easiest business/finance classes possible.

LSU- you are probably right. I can survive doing what I am doing and if it goes well fine, if not I can abort when I complete CFA in 2029. LOL

Primo-thats a good idea. I guess I don't do that consistently because I am operating out of desperation and I try to be Mr Friendly to build trust.


Posted By: Maksim
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

Mo - Im not to confident in my CFA success because I didn't study any of that shit in college. I was already trading and making good cash while going to school at night so I was taking these easiest business/finance classes possible.

LSU- you are probably right. I can survive doing what I am doing and if it goes well fine, if not I can abort when I complete CFA in 2029. LOL

Primo-thats a good idea. I guess I don't do that consistently because I am operating out of desperation and I try to be Mr Friendly to build trust.


My buddy was in the same position.  Was an FA for Ameriprise, then went to Chase as a bank advisor.  Couldnt deal with that stuff, went to work for ML as an internal and now clearing 85k with bonus.



-------------
Former Amp P1 & UBS, Now RIA and couldn't be happier.





Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:18pm
If 85k is the end game I have no interest. Absolutely none.


Posted By: Maksim
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:24pm

That is his starting pay.  His immediate boss is making close to 200.


But hey, you dont have to deal with clients.


Honestly though, why dont you just be more selective with whom you work with?  Or does your bank not allow it?



-------------
Former Amp P1 & UBS, Now RIA and couldn't be happier.





Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:37pm
Oh I thought you meant he was at 85k with bonuses included. What is an internal at ML?
 
Yeah, difficult to be real selective at the bank, but it is possible.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:47pm
Have you thought about the wholesaling route?


Posted By: eggward
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:47pm
Ron, have you sent a PM to Gaddock about this?  He kinda disappeared but he is a trader and was clear that he would prospect to get a certain number of clients and then would stop prospecting and just manage assets.  You might not agree with certain aspects of his trading style, but he might be able to offer some good insight with respect to the questions you ask.  I don't know him other than his posts on this site and the old one....it was just a thought.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:49pm
The firms I have worked for don't allow for options trading and I don't think I could bring in enough funds with my lack of prospecting talent to make it work.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:50pm
Originally posted by under_complicated under_complicated wrote:

Have you thought about the wholesaling route?
 
Not really because I wouldn't believe in what I was selling. I don't think there is a big difference in fund families and with managed money becoming the norm I don't see much of a future in it.


Posted By: Lawrence
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 8:52pm
You could be the "party boy" at some beach resort.
At least you and I finally have something in common.
L



-------------
"If you don't see it as an insult that he is watching your mom, spread eagle, taking in an object from another female then I can't help you." Ron14


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

The firms I have worked for don't allow for options trading and I don't think I could bring in enough funds with my lack of prospecting talent to make it work.
 
 
Prospecting talent is a myth.  There is calling and call avoidance.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by Lawrence Lawrence wrote:

You could be the "party boy" at some beach resort.
At least you and I finally have something in common.
L

So Lawrence is in Key West for the summer.
You know working an Old mans' sack is different than working for Goldman Sachs right?


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by Lawrence Lawrence wrote:

You could be the "party boy" at some beach resort.
At least you and I finally have something in common.
L

Wth are you talking about?


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by Primo Primo wrote:

Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

The firms I have worked for don't allow for options trading and I don't think I could bring in enough funds with my lack of prospecting talent to make it work.
 
 
Prospecting talent is a myth.  There is calling and call avoidance.
 
You may be right. Either way I have played that game and it didn't happen for me.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:04pm
Ron, How much do you need/want to make a year?


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:06pm
I can survive on 50 now, but I need to see that 150+ is on the horizon.


Posted By: Wet_Blanket
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:08pm
Have you ever considered a career in Compliance?

-------------
September 23, 2020

Moraen: Book it. Trump wins by a huge margin.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:08pm
It isn't all about the money...
 
Seriously find your passion and enjoy your family. This life isn't worth being miserable for $.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:09pm
Wet -Never had until recently. I am being serious, I don't know if you are.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by under_complicated under_complicated wrote:

It isn't all about the money...
 
Seriously find your passion and enjoy your family. This life isn't worth being miserable for $.
 
My passion to be a college or NFL scout doesn't pay jack, that is the problem.


Posted By: Wet_Blanket
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

Wet -Never had until recently. I am being serious, I don't know if you are.
Honestly, if you really want to get out of client business, then my suggestion would be to become either a) compliance or b) a trader for a RIA or hedge fund.

If Compliance, I recommend RIA because the job is more challenging and higher paying than B/D. Not sure about Bank Compliance though - but I'm guessing the pay isn't that great until you are high up in the corporate structure. I would think that your trading AND FA experience will be a strength.

For a trader at a shop, you can make good money. A lot of firms base bonuses on price improvement for traders. Also, a lot of these shops just have order takers for traders. If you were good and have good contacts, then that would be a benefit.

-------------
September 23, 2020

Moraen: Book it. Trump wins by a huge margin.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:21pm
Where would I begin to look? My contacts are still floor type guys and I have a complex where I want to find jobs on my own, not because I knew someone.


Posted By: Wet_Blanket
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:27pm
Do you have any trader contacts in the big B/Ds? I don't mean that you use them for a job, but you use them when you are a trader at a shop. For example, our trader has a good network of "friends" at various desks - so we tend to get pretty good treatment when we put a trade through their desk.

1 other thing you have going for you is your location. Let me mull this over to see if I can give you a concrete starting place.

First obvious place I would start in the meantime is look at the various trader's mags for job postings or events.

As I'm sure you know, your personality would be a strength in that position.

-------------
September 23, 2020

Moraen: Book it. Trump wins by a huge margin.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by Wet_Blanket Wet_Blanket wrote:

Do you have any trader contacts in the big B/Ds? I don't mean that you use them for a job, but you use them when you are a trader at a shop. For example, our trader has a good network of "friends" at various desks - so we tend to get pretty good treatment when we put a trade through their desk.

1 other thing you have going for you is your location. Let me mull this over to see if I can give you a concrete starting place.

First obvious place I would start in the meantime is look at the various trader's mags for job postings or events.

As I'm sure you know, your personality would be a strength in that position.
 
This I definitely have. Two of my best friends are floor brokers in the SPX Options pit at the CBOE and I have contacts with a bunch of other guys. I just don't how I could market that to anyone.
 


Posted By: Wet_Blanket
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:38pm
It is valuable - you just have to find a firm that recognizes it. You should probably start by researching shops that do option biz - but you aren't limited to those shops because your experience and history is transferrable.

If you want, you can PM me your general work history etc., and I'll ask some guys in "the biz" for what you can expect and where to look.

-------------
September 23, 2020

Moraen: Book it. Trump wins by a huge margin.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 9:40pm
That would be much appreciated. Should I include that I sold a lot of Investment Company of America while at EJ?


Posted By: LA Broker
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 10:00pm

Ron

I know how you feel and I think most on this board know how you feel.  Building a book without high net worth contacts is tough work.  You have to weed through the garbage and take idiots on as clients until you get enough “good” clients to break off and work exclusively with them.  If you plan on sticking with this longer just remind yourself how young you still are for the average FA, by the time you are mid 40’s when most are starting in this business you will have a nice book with enough good clients to control your career more.  I like the idea of studying for the CFA while at work, maybe you could move into private wealth management where you are the CFA of a team, dealing with ultra high net worth clients. 

No offense Wet, but I would not even consider compliance Ron, I think you would get tired of it quick.  At least be a Chicago PD where you can kick someone’s ass in real life once in a while if you like the idea of policing people. 

How about the FBI going after white collar financial crimes?  Pay is not great but you can retire at 55 with a 150K (adjusted for inflation) pension. 

Personally, I would not rule out wholesaling, I think some firms have a managed account program you can wholesale for them.  Or what about working for a hedge fund?  Either as a analyst or on the sales side. 

Don’t forget we are in a pretty tough time right now for our business.  People are scared of the market; bond yields are low with rising interest rates around the corner.  Things will eventually get easier to make a buck.



-------------
“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”
-Winston Churchill


Posted By: Wet_Blanket
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 10:06pm
Hah - be sure to mention your strategic DCA plans.

-------------
September 23, 2020

Moraen: Book it. Trump wins by a huge margin.


Posted By: SometimesNowhere
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 10:06pm
Originally posted by Lawrence Lawrence wrote:

You could be the "party boy" at some beach resort. At least you and I finally have something in common.L

Seriously Lawrence, you're a fucking retard. Delete your account and kill yourself immediately.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by LA Broker LA Broker wrote:

Ron

I know how you feel and I think most on this board know how you feel.  Building a book without high net worth contacts is tough work.  You have to weed through the garbage and take idiots on as clients until you get enough “good” clients to break off and work exclusively with them.  If you plan on sticking with this longer just remind yourself how young you still are for the average FA, by the time you are mid 40’s when most are starting in this business you will have a nice book with enough good clients to control your career more.  I like the idea of studying for the CFA while at work, maybe you could move into private wealth management where you are the CFA of a team, dealing with ultra high net worth clients. 

No offense Wet, but I would not even consider compliance Ron, I think you would get tired of it quick.  At least be a Chicago PD where you can kick someone’s ass in real life once in a while if you like the idea of policing people. 

How about the FBI going after white collar financial crimes?  Pay is not great but you can retire at 55 with a 150K (adjusted for inflation) pension. 

Personally, I would not rule out wholesaling, I think some firms have a managed account program you can wholesale for them.  Or what about working for a hedge fund?  Either as a analyst or on the sales side. 

Don’t forget we are in a pretty tough time right now for our business.  People are scared of the market; bond yields are low with rising interest rates around the corner.  Things will eventually get easier to make a buck.

 
Those are all good points. I had looked into FBI jobs, but the layers are so vast that who knows how long it will take to get in if I am even qualified.
 
Wholesaling scares me because what do you really have? Even grinding it out at a bank I know I am slowly building some loyal clients that will be with me if this is what I want to do.


Posted By: Moraen
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 10:32pm
Ron, if you are interested in working for the Bureau, let me know.  I have some good contacts, and I know how to navigate federal jobs.


Posted By: knuk
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by Primo Primo wrote:

Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

The firms I have worked for don't allow for options trading and I don't think I could bring in enough funds with my lack of prospecting talent to make it work.
 
 
Prospecting talent is a myth.  There is calling and call avoidance.

Or as Yoda says"Try? No try. Do or do not."


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/30/2010 at 11:38pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

Originally posted by under_complicated under_complicated wrote:

Have you thought about the wholesaling route?
 
Not really because I wouldn't believe in what I was selling. I don't think there is a big difference in fund families and with managed money becoming the norm I don't see much of a future in it.

this is ridiculous IMO.  bullshit, it's the other way.  AND if you don't like what you do, GET A MUTHERFUCKIN PLAN TO CHANGE IT.  I am sure mlgone would have said something like, dude you control whatever you do from this moment on. Now believe.  Do your day job and get the CFA or whatever you want.  you can


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 12:52am
Ron,

My take on your situation is this...

I thin you're a spectacular advisor, but you hate prospecting.  My advice, is to pick a firm that you actually want to be a part of, and bust your balls for 4 years building a business.  Don't take traders.  Don't take dumbasses.  Suck it up, and get over your prospecting avoidance, and built the shit out of your business, at a place you like, and before you're 40, you'll be on easy  street for life.

You work at firms you despise, and work with clients you hate, because you feel you have to.  Use that hate as motivation to prospect...because if you prospect, you can build your biz ANYWHERE (so you won't need the bank), and you can work with ANYONE, you don't have to taken anyone's shit.

If you think you're trapped, then you will be.  If you think you won't make it, then you won't.  But if you just overcome all that shit, and you believe you're the man, then you will be the man.  And you have the skills to be the man...so do it. 


Posted By: Iamlegend
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 10:12am
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

Many of you have probably seen this coming for months now, but I have a feeling that I don't stand a chance in this business long term for one reason. I HATE WRESTLING WITH IDIOTS!!
 
I had two second appointments today and they were fucking disasters. Halfway through I just wanted to tell the people, "You have no chance at financial security, I can't help you, we are done here."  I didn't because they both had 100k+ and obviously hitting numbers is part of the game.
 
Lets save the maybe you suck at this or you should have done this or any of the other commentary I am sure to hear. I am asking, what do I do now ? Frankly I am miserable and I just can't stand most of these people I deal with. I have a trading background and 4 years as a garbage FA. Where should I go or how do I salvage this career ?
Have you thought about trying to get into external wholesaling?  You have the knowledge and you would deal with disasters like us rather than the disaster clients.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 10:19am
I did think about that, but I am not a seminar type guy.


Posted By: Wet_Blanket
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 10:50am
I think I have the right answer.  I'll get back to you Ron.

-------------
September 23, 2020

Moraen: Book it. Trump wins by a huge margin.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 11:12am
Clap


Posted By: Iamlegend
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 11:31am
How about joining a team as a behind the scenes person who runs the models, etc. With your trading background you could probably add value there.


Posted By: Wet_Blanket
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 11:39am
Ron, just curious - you do not want to be a floor trader?
 
http://www.analyticrecruiting.com/list_job.asp?job_id=16469&category=m3&keyword1=&keyword2=&utm_source=Indeed&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Indeed - INDEX OPTIONS-OPEN OUTCRY EXECUTION FLOOR TRADER

A Leading Chicago Equity Index Market Maker is looking for an experienced Execution Trader to join their growing Trading Floor team. The firm uses the latest quantitative models to make markets and execute trades in the SPX and OEX pits. Candidates must have current experience executing Equity Index Options in an Open Out-Cry Pit directly on the Chicago Exchange floors and will need to demonstrate advanced knowledge of options math. Preference will be given to candidates who have strong quantitative skills and programming experience (C++). The role requires superior communication skills and a strong work ethic.



-------------
September 23, 2020

Moraen: Book it. Trump wins by a huge margin.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 11:41am
Originally posted by Iamlegend Iamlegend wrote:

How about joining a team as a behind the scenes person who runs the models, etc. With your trading background you could probably add value there.
 
That would be ideal. This is seems to be the best fit. I am searching right now.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 11:44am
Originally posted by Wet_Blanket Wet_Blanket wrote:

Ron, just curious - you do not want to be a floor trader?
 
http://www.analyticrecruiting.com/list_job.asp?job_id=16469&category=m3&keyword1=&keyword2=&utm_source=Indeed&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Indeed - INDEX OPTIONS-OPEN OUTCRY EXECUTION FLOOR TRADER

A Leading Chicago Equity Index Market Maker is looking for an experienced Execution Trader to join their growing Trading Floor team. The firm uses the latest quantitative models to make markets and execute trades in the SPX and OEX pits. Candidates must have current experience executing Equity Index Options in an Open Out-Cry Pit directly on the Chicago Exchange floors and will need to demonstrate advanced knowledge of options math. Preference will be given to candidates who have strong quantitative skills and programming experience (C++). The role requires superior communication skills and a strong work ethic.

 
This is what I did before. Floor trading positions are drying up quickly and many of them lack much thought, meaning you stand there with a handheld computer and make the markets the back office tells you to make. When I was down there we had values on a sheet of paper and we would make markets based on volatility changes in our head. Floor jobs now are basically for puppets.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 11:45am
Originally posted by Iamlegend Iamlegend wrote:

How about joining a team as a behind the scenes person who runs the models, etc. With your trading background you could probably add value there.


Because there are no teams out there that are looking to hire a person for this.  A sophisticated team already has people doing this, and an unsophisticated team doesn't care. 

Team opportunities are for prospectors and closers. 


Posted By: FA86
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 12:06pm
Ron, can I have your old job if you get a new one?


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 12:11pm
Sure. You don't want it though believe me.
 
I was sitting at lunch with the bank branch manager yesterday, halfway through a shitty day and it was like a movie. He is just yap yap yap, his lips are moving, but it is really complete silence. All I can hear is myself saying,"Ron are you kidding me? This is what you are doing?"
 
If I didn't have a wife and kids at home I would have pulled a Jerry Maguire yesterday and abruptly walked out.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 12:12pm

Start doing business on your own terms.  Only deal with the people YOU want to deal with.  Unless you have a firm minimum and are having difficulty hitting it, doing business on your terms simply takes grabbing a hold of your balls and doing it. 



Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 12:24pm

During initial meetings are there certain questions you ask to determine whether the person is worth doing business with beyond the assets?

Although refusing people at the bank opens up an entirely new can of worms.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 12:43pm
I ask them to tell me what they want.  I tell them what I do.  If what they want is reasonable, I ask if I show them something that delivers what they want, will they commit to doing business with me.  If you get a yes here, the deal is 99% done.  If they won't commit here, you are facing an uphill battle.  If they won't commit, ask them why.  You want this.  You are here.  If I give you what you want, why not?  What other reason is there for you being here?  You see, once they commit, all you have to do is convince them that whatever you show them fits what they told you they wanted.  If they object, ask them how it is different than what they asked for.  Make them do the work to be your client.


Posted By: FA86
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 12:47pm
All kidding aside Ron, I feel your pain. I've got clients with 50k who are impossible to get a hold of, who know a lot about "the market" yet couldn't clearly articulate how a bond works or insist that we're moving to a north american currency. My biggest client has about 600k (I haven't been doing this for too long) and she's the most relaxed, easy-going, patient client I could have. Listened to my plan, bought into it and is excited about it. The key is getting as many of these people as possible. I have seen a glimpse of the future and it is beautiful, it's going to take time to get there though. Ask yourself how you feel when you are meeting with those types of clients and if you can handle trudging through the garbage to get to the treasure.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 12:58pm
Primo - that is gold
 
FA - I am with you. I have about 10 clients with 300k or more and they are the easiest to work with by far. I guess that is part of the answer, but at a bank it is difficult to ignore people.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

Primo - that is gold
 
FA - I am with you. I have about 10 clients with 300k or more and they are the easiest to work with by far. I guess that is part of the answer, but at a bank it is difficult to ignore people.
It is easy to ignore people.   For those that you cannot tell to fuck off because of the bank, show them some asset allocation fund, give them a 2 minute pitch and ask them to buy.  Anything but a yes results in this phrase "Go home and think about it and givie me a call."  If they buy or actually call you, make sure you take the upfront comm as these are not clients.


Posted By: SometimesNowhere
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 1:20pm
Ron,

I think you and I are a lot alike. About three times a year I have this existential crisis where I feel like I hate my job (really it comes down to hating 1. Dealing with shitty clients 2. Constantly asking for business 3. Starting out every month having to hunt for my dinner) and feel like I need a new profession. I consider a couple things - changing firms, going back to my old profession, getting my MBA/CFA/pursue some other business interest.

When I am really honest with myself and go through my options, this continues to be the best one. Here are my selling points on a career - family time, money, autonomy. All things considered there is no better career than what we do.

-I have no boss, nobody ever calls me asking me where I am or what I'm doing
-I alone make way more than the average family in my area, and am still young in my career
-I go where I want, when I want
-There is no ceiling to my income (except when I get fucked by the tax guy)
-I get to genuinely help people and make a significant difference in their life

My wife (who is at the end of her post grad education in a field where she will always make mid $100k range at worst) constantly scoffs at me when I think about going back to the corporate world. She says "you have a dream job, why are you even considering changing it".

There are shitty things about this career. I have dipshit clients, have to deal with inconsiderate assholes when I prospect, have to go to regional meetings with a bunch of ass-slapping pikers. however, I would trade those problems for a new set of shitty problems- working 70 hours a week to make the same money, working with a dickhole boss, no control over my hours. I have come to realize that the key to my problems is not having a developed business, because if I managed $100mm I would not be considering a career change.

In the end it comes down to what your considerations are and lining up your career for them. I suspect that you are like me...if you didn't have to carry Jamie Dimon's cock in your pocket and you could be choosy about your clients, you wouldn't be considering a move. If that's true, your problem is like mine, undeveloped business. The only fix for that is acquiring A and B clients and firing your D and F clients. There is no other way around it. When you realize that, figure out if you can do it at Chotchzkie Morgan. If you can't, work on an exit strategy (I can't help you there). If you can, or at least can bear it, really honestly bear down and get the shitty years out of the way.

Sorry for the novel, fellas. FWIW, this is a lesson in cutting and pasting, because I guarantee this post will time out.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 2:09pm
SN - Do you actually label your clients as low as F? 


Posted By: Indyone
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

Originally posted by under_complicated under_complicated wrote:

It isn't all about the money...
 
Seriously find your passion and enjoy your family. This life isn't worth being miserable for $.
 
My passion to be a college or NFL scout doesn't pay jack, that is the problem.
 
That's a shame, because I suspect you'd be damned good at it.
 
I didn't read through all four pages yet, but you might also consider portfolio manager in a trust department.  That was one thing I did before going over to the retail side.  Probably not as sexy as portfolio manager for an RIA or hedge fund, but it sounds like it's closer to what you want to do than where you are at.
 
It may take some time to get where you want to be, so keep making lemonade, brother.


-------------
"Independence is like the Berlin Wall. People are only jumping in one direction." - Philip Palaveev - November 2005. "You are never free...unless you are independent..." - Indyone - May 2005.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by SometimesNowhere SometimesNowhere wrote:

Ron,

I think you and I are a lot alike. About three times a year I have this existential crisis where I feel like I hate my job (really it comes down to hating 1. Dealing with shitty clients 2. Constantly asking for business 3. Starting out every month having to hunt for my dinner) and feel like I need a new profession. I consider a couple things - changing firms, going back to my old profession, getting my MBA/CFA/pursue some other business interest.

When I am really honest with myself and go through my options, this continues to be the best one. Here are my selling points on a career - family time, money, autonomy. All things considered there is no better career than what we do.

-I have no boss, nobody ever calls me asking me where I am or what I'm doing
-I alone make way more than the average family in my area, and am still young in my career
-I go where I want, when I want
-There is no ceiling to my income (except when I get fucked by the tax guy)
-I get to genuinely help people and make a significant difference in their life

My wife (who is at the end of her post grad education in a field where she will always make mid $100k range at worst) constantly scoffs at me when I think about going back to the corporate world. She says "you have a dream job, why are you even considering changing it".

There are shitty things about this career. I have dipshit clients, have to deal with inconsiderate assholes when I prospect, have to go to regional meetings with a bunch of ass-slapping pikers. however, I would trade those problems for a new set of shitty problems- working 70 hours a week to make the same money, working with a dickhole boss, no control over my hours. I have come to realize that the key to my problems is not having a developed business, because if I managed $100mm I would not be considering a career change.

In the end it comes down to what your considerations are and lining up your career for them. I suspect that you are like me...if you didn't have to carry Jamie Dimon's cock in your pocket and you could be choosy about your clients, you wouldn't be considering a move. If that's true, your problem is like mine, undeveloped business. The only fix for that is acquiring A and B clients and firing your D and F clients. There is no other way around it. When you realize that, figure out if you can do it at Chotchzkie Morgan. If you can't, work on an exit strategy (I can't help you there). If you can, or at least can bear it, really honestly bear down and get the shitty years out of the way.

Sorry for the novel, fellas. FWIW, this is a lesson in cutting and pasting, because I guarantee this post will time out.
 
Wow. That is absolutely right on the money. I don't have quite as much freedom at the bank as at Jones, but it isn't corporate America. In reality I would be trading one set of problems for another because if I did anything else I would have someone looking over my shoulder each day and that just isn't happening.


Posted By: SometimesNowhere
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by iceco1d iceco1d wrote:

SN - Do you actually label your clients as low as F? 

Yes. There are dingleberries that hung on after I took the branch that I personally would not take as new clients but service sparingly out of respect for my firm.


Posted By: EDJFA
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 3:53pm
Ron, why not pick some product you believe in and sell it? Be like Bio, except not a prick...

Not to be rude in any way, but you have said you're at a bank and have about $15 million AUM. It doesn't sound like they're giving you much. You could be selling annuities, or go Indy working out of your house pitching investments you believe in only to the type of people you want as clients.

Or, take every fucking schmuck that walks near you in the bank, be a great advisor to the tip tier ideal clients, everyone else you can sell something and give bare minimum service. Build a Jones style book at the bank and go Indy later.

Just random thoughts, it seems you can add a lot to your book by selling and forgetting with the shitty prospects you don't want to work with...


Posted By: Mr.Blonde
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 6:59pm
I don't think wholesaling would be an option for you, can you imagine kissing Windy's ass for a livingLOL

-------------
"You going to bark all day little doggy, hmmm, or you going to bite?"


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 8:08pm
Yeah that would be painful! Although he doesn't need help from a wholesaler, he has all of the answers.


Posted By: Mr.Blonde
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 9:57pm

There's a couple of us on here with Credit Unions and seem to be pretty happys. Payouts around 40% and not as many douches walking in the door (still get them of course). If you were at Jones for more than 6 months, you'd kill it with a list of people looking for advice.

No idea why there can be such a difference with a tradional bank and CU but an old Jones friend recommended going the route and its been smooth sailing for both of us. Others went the bank route and are having a similar experience like you are.


-------------
"You going to bark all day little doggy, hmmm, or you going to bite?"


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 10:02pm
Do CUs pay on CDs? If so the CUs have much better rates and that would help to get the door open although you may get stuck with a ton of CD buyers but who cares? After all you are at a CU!


Posted By: EDJFA
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 10:04pm
Ron, I've got a couple of connections to some credit unions in Chicago, PM me if you want there info.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 10:04pm
I was at EJ for a little over 2 years. I have no idea why there would be such a big difference between CU and banks.


Posted By: Mr.Blonde
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 10:07pm

We can offer CD's through our dealer and get 25bps per year invested or 20bps if we refer it to the branch. Don't do very much of it though but it is a nice consolation prize when some douche wants to get out of the market and we transfer it to the branch!



-------------
"You going to bark all day little doggy, hmmm, or you going to bite?"


Posted By: Mr.Blonde
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 10:08pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

I was at EJ for a little over 2 years. I have no idea why there would be such a big difference between CU and banks.
 
Neither do I, I've just seen it more than once


-------------
"You going to bark all day little doggy, hmmm, or you going to bite?"


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 10:08pm
That is sweet, getting credit for CD's.


Posted By: EDJFA
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 10:19pm
New idea, prospect only to CD buyers, offer checking accounts, build $50 million book and you've got more deposits than most community banks...start your own bank!


Posted By: BerkshireBull
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 10:55pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

If 85k is the end game I have no interest. Absolutely none.


If this guy is only working 40-45hrs then surely you jest....

I could live like a king and retire at 55 on 85k per year. 

(live in a 77 year old paid-off house, drive used vehicles, no debt) 85k might not look that great though when kids show up and if the wife quit working...


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by BerkshireBull BerkshireBull wrote:

Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

If 85k is the end game I have no interest. Absolutely none.


If this guy is only working 40-45hrs then surely you jest....

I could live like a king and retire at 55 on 85k per year. 

(live in a 77 year old paid-off house, drive used vehicles, no debt) 85k might not look that great though when kids show up and if the wife quit working...
 
Bingo


Posted By: BerkshireBull
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

Originally posted by BerkshireBull BerkshireBull wrote:

Originally posted by Ron 14 Ron 14 wrote:

If 85k is the end game I have no interest. Absolutely none.


If this guy is only working 40-45hrs then surely you jest....

I could live like a king and retire at 55 on 85k per year. 

(live in a 77 year old paid-off house, drive used vehicles, no debt) 85k might not look that great though when kids show up and if the wife quit working...
 
Bingo



Ron is this a typical Sunday with kids?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nojWJ6-XmeQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nojWJ6-XmeQ


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 11:18pm
LOL!


Posted By: incognito
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 11:52pm

Ron-

Do you have to stick with the branches?  Do any other departments have any incentive to refer to you?  I know in my bank that clients are beginning to mutiny against portfolio mgrs in the trust area , because they have to stick to their s&p 500 buy list and use funds for the rest of the pie chart. Clients are looking for something different that addresses the fact the markets don't just always go up. Maybe you could find a biz lender who feels his clients are at risk if he sends them to the trust dept because they haven't changed their thinking in 100 years.  Show him something different with your options experience.



Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Jul/31/2010 at 11:56pm

There are so many levels of private wealth and the FA's are so packed together (one every few blocks) that it would be difficult to get any of that especially when I would have nothing to offer them besides the same lame asset allocation models and/or annuities.



Posted By: incognito
Date Posted: Aug/01/2010 at 1:11am
What can you do that is not pre-approved?  I know you'll never have discretion, but can you at least solicit certain things other then the MPT stuff?


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Aug/01/2010 at 10:53am
0


Posted By: FA86
Date Posted: Aug/01/2010 at 11:43am
Originally posted by SometimesNowhere SometimesNowhere wrote:

Ron,

I think you and I are a lot alike. About three times a year I have this existential crisis where I feel like I hate my job (really it comes down to hating 1. Dealing with shitty clients 2. Constantly asking for business 3. Starting out every month having to hunt for my dinner) and feel like I need a new profession. I consider a couple things - changing firms, going back to my old profession, getting my MBA/CFA/pursue some other business interest.

When I am really honest with myself and go through my options, this continues to be the best one. Here are my selling points on a career - family time, money, autonomy. All things considered there is no better career than what we do.

-I have no boss, nobody ever calls me asking me where I am or what I'm doing
-I alone make way more than the average family in my area, and am still young in my career
-I go where I want, when I want
-There is no ceiling to my income (except when I get fucked by the tax guy)
-I get to genuinely help people and make a significant difference in their life


My wife (who is at the end of her post grad education in a field where she will always make mid $100k range at worst) constantly scoffs at me when I think about going back to the corporate world. She says "you have a dream job, why are you even considering changing it".

There are shitty things about this career. I have dipshit clients, have to deal with inconsiderate assholes when I prospect, have to go to regional meetings with a bunch of ass-slapping pikers. however, I would trade those problems for a new set of shitty problems- working 70 hours a week to make the same money, working with a dickhole boss, no control over my hours. I have come to realize that the key to my problems is not having a developed business, because if I managed $100mm I would not be considering a career change.

In the end it comes down to what your considerations are and lining up your career for them. I suspect that you are like me...if you didn't have to carry Jamie Dimon's cock in your pocket and you could be choosy about your clients, you wouldn't be considering a move. If that's true, your problem is like mine, undeveloped business. The only fix for that is acquiring A and B clients and firing your D and F clients. There is no other way around it. When you realize that, figure out if you can do it at Chotchzkie Morgan. If you can't, work on an exit strategy (I can't help you there). If you can, or at least can bear it, really honestly bear down and get the shitty years out of the way.

Sorry for the novel, fellas. FWIW, this is a lesson in cutting and pasting, because I guarantee this post will time out.



Well said SN. I think just about ANY guy or gal in this business that has not yet reached the glorious yonder of 6 figure trail/service fee income experiences what you've talked about and what Ron is going through right now. But you've said it right. I had an offer from one of the big fund companies to go work with them as an internal but it just doesn't make sense. Sure, salary would be nice and the day I got to external income would go way up, but a hard working wholesaler works his nuts off compared to the guy that's got a 70-100MM book.

The day will come where I can get rid of my C, D and F clients. Until then, sticking it out is a whole lot better than being on salary and having someone breathing down your neck EVERY day. For Ron, that means eventually moving independent. For Jonesies like us, that means getting to the point where we make the numbers that keep the firm happy and allow us to do whatever the heck we want.


Posted By: Ron 14
Date Posted: Aug/01/2010 at 12:32pm

This is what I have gathered from this thread. I am printing these portions out, dropping my purse, and putting them in my wallet. When I am about to flip I am going to go grab a coffee, read this advice, and reset myself. This is good stuff. You guys are the best friends anyone has never met!!!!

Ice- Don't take traders.  Don't take dumbasses.  Suck it up, and get over your prospecting avoidance, and built the shit out of your business, at a place you like, and before you're 40, you'll be on easy  street for life.

You work at firms you despise, and work with clients you hate, because you feel you have to.  Use that hate as motivation to prospect...because if you prospect, you can build your biz ANYWHERE (so you won't need the bank), and you can work with ANYONE, you don't have to taken anyone's shit.

If you think you're trapped, then you will be.  If you think you won't make it, then you won't.  But if you just overcome all that shit, and you believe you're the man, then you will be the man.  And you have the skills to be the man...so do it. 

 

Primo-Start doing business on your own terms.  Only deal with the people YOU want to deal with.  Unless you have a firm minimum and are having difficulty hitting it, doing business on your terms simply takes grabbing a hold of your balls and doing it.

I ask them to tell me what they want.  I tell them what I do.  If what they want is reasonable, I ask if I show them something that delivers what they want, will they commit to doing business with me.  If you get a yes here, the deal is 99% done.  If they won't commit here, you are facing an uphill battle.  If they won't commit, ask them why.  You want this.  You are here.  If I give you what you want, why not?  What other reason is there for you being here?  You see, once they commit, all you have to do is convince them that whatever you show them fits what they told you they wanted.  If they object, ask them how it is different than what they asked for.  Make them do the work to be your client.

It is easy to ignore people.   For those that you cannot tell to fuck off because of the bank, show them some asset allocation fund, give them a 2 minute pitch and ask them to buy.  Anything but a yes results in this phrase "Go home and think about it and givie me a call."  If they buy or actually call you, make sure you take the upfront comm as these are not clients.

SN-I think you and I are a lot alike. About three times a year I have this existential crisis where I feel like I hate my job (really it comes down to hating 1. Dealing with shitty clients 2. Constantly asking for business 3. Starting out every month having to hunt for my dinner) and feel like I need a new profession. I consider a couple things - changing firms, going back to my old profession, getting my MBA/CFA/pursue some other business interest.

When I am really honest with myself and go through my options, this continues to be the best one. Here are my selling points on a career - family time, money, autonomy. All things considered there is no better career than what we do.

-I have no boss, nobody ever calls me asking me where I am or what I'm doing
-I alone make way more than the average family in my area, and am still young in my career
-I go where I want, when I want
-There is no ceiling to my income (except when I get fucked by the tax guy)
-I get to genuinely help people and make a significant difference in their life

My wife (who is at the end of her post grad education in a field where she will always make mid $100k range at worst) constantly scoffs at me when I think about going back to the corporate world. She says "you have a dream job, why are you even considering changing it".

There are shitty things about this career. I have dipshit clients, have to deal with inconsiderate assholes when I prospect, have to go to regional meetings with a bunch of ass-slapping pikers. however, I would trade those problems for a new set of shitty problems- working 70 hours a week to make the same money, working with a dickhole boss, no control over my hours. I have come to realize that the key to my problems is not having a developed business, because if I managed $100mm I would not be considering a career change.

In the end it comes down to what your considerations are and lining up your career for them. I suspect that you are like me...if you didn't have to carry Jamie Dimon's cock in your pocket and you could be choosy about your clients, you wouldn't be considering a move. If that's true, your problem is like mine, undeveloped business. The only fix for that is acquiring A and B clients and firing your D and F clients. There is no other way around it. When you realize that, figure out if you can do it at Chotchzkie Morgan. If you can't, work on an exit strategy (I can't help you there). If you can, or at least can bear it, really honestly bear down and get the shitty years out of the way.

EDJFA-Ron, why not pick some product you believe in and sell it? Be like Bio, except not a prick...

Not to be rude in any way, but you have said you're at a bank and have about $15 million AUM. It doesn't sound like they're giving you much. You could be selling annuities, or go Indy working out of your house pitching investments you believe in only to the type of people you want as clients.

Or, take every fucking schmuck that walks near you in the bank, be a great advisor to the tip tier ideal clients, everyone else you can sell something and give bare minimum service. Build a Jones style book at the bank and go Indy later.

Just random thoughts, it seems you can add a lot to your book by selling and forgetting with the shitty prospects you don't want to work with...

Mo-I have no doubt you are smart enough to do the CFA.  Likely smarter than me.  I will give you a little fair warning though:  That shit was hard.  If I find out in August that I didn't pass level III (again!) I don't know what I'll do.

Second, with your background and experience, you will only need to study a couple of hours a night (I know I just said it was hard - just wanted to have that caveat). 

Third, you can study while working at a bank.  Could you possibly find a salaried advisor job, or a trading job (I would think given where you live that would be possible)?



Posted By: HAcoreRD
Date Posted: Aug/01/2010 at 7:17pm
Great stuff guys.
Aside from the hilarious banter in the evenings, stuff like this is why I frequent the site.


Posted By: Wet_Blanket
Date Posted: Aug/01/2010 at 8:37pm
Due to the quality of this thread, and the nomination, I have moved this to the Lobby.

-------------
September 23, 2020

Moraen: Book it. Trump wins by a huge margin.


Posted By: Breesus
Date Posted: Aug/01/2010 at 10:48pm
Great thread.  Ron's last post is awesome.  So many guys in my office have no frikin clue as to what is going on in my firm.  They have been there 10+ years, do no prospecting, do $200K a year, make less than ever, drink the kool-aid every conference call and their trapped.  Don't think they can move....don't want to change anything and are afraid to ask.  Fuck it.  Great thread.  I grind everyday and have built a book from scratch.  I have energy and am young enough to be motived to move if I can find the right fit.  Glad I signed up.  

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the next 10 years will be better than the past 10.


Posted By: workinhard
Date Posted: Aug/02/2010 at 8:13am
Awesome thread.
 
Ron I'm kind of feeling what you are feeling.  Keep your head up, I'm trying to do the same!
 
And good luck!


Posted By: Moraen
Date Posted: Aug/02/2010 at 8:28am
I wonder if it's the weather. 

School is starting.  Our country is being run by people who get stupider every year.


Posted By: noggin
Date Posted: Aug/02/2010 at 10:50am
I think almost all of us have had those days, weeks or months that just make us want to do something different. The transition from Jones for me was very draining for me emotionally. I now realize and have begun to build again rather than trying to convert clients I used to have. My vision is 250 households with at least 100K each, which would average about 200K each. That would give me a 50 Million book with at least 15 million in fee based. I try to do things each day consistently that will get me progress towards that goal. Thanks Ron for the conversation and sharing where you are at it has been helpful to a lot of us. Good luck getting to your goals.

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What keeps us captive are our own fears.- Moraen


Posted By: Mike Damone
Date Posted: Aug/02/2010 at 11:36am
This is a great thread.  Ron, keep your head up.  I've felt the same way.

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"60% of the Time, It Works Every Time"



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